Message from @Leiro レイロ

Discord ID: 506445866421190673


2018-10-29 12:28:21 UTC  

the USSR made education compulsory and heavily subsidised for people up to 22 years old, look how many distinguished mathematicians, physicians and scientists they produced

2018-10-29 12:29:15 UTC  

If the institution needs to put perform its competitors, it will continue to improve itself. If it's told it will be subsidizing whether or not it's good at what it does or not, they are absolved of risk and absolved of needing to out perform eachother

2018-10-29 12:29:47 UTC  

Yeah but you are talking about a country that idolizes the United States

2018-10-29 12:30:50 UTC  

They collapsed during the Cold War because of communism, it did not incentivize their factories and government backed industries to do anything but pass preplanned inspections

2018-10-29 12:30:57 UTC  

why do we need to have competition in regards to education? Education isn't a business or a commodity here, it should be a human right

2018-10-29 12:31:34 UTC  

@raqdog the USSR never achieved communism, communism is the transition from socialism to a moneyless, classless and stateless society, and the USSR was none of it.

2018-10-29 12:31:37 UTC  

They would get everything working for a brief period during inspections and then let it all fail the rest of the time. Human beings are incentive driven creatures. We do the bare minimum to keep up

2018-10-29 12:32:09 UTC  

It's good to think about education like a right, I like that

2018-10-29 12:32:37 UTC  

But it is like a commodity, it's an investment in yourself

2018-10-29 12:32:41 UTC  

the collapse of the Soviet Union had nothing to do with incentives, the piece-shake economic model depdned on periods of rapid growth

2018-10-29 12:33:06 UTC  

in the 60s there was a huge debate on how to reform the economy

2018-10-29 12:33:21 UTC  

I think the only thing that kept the Soviet Union going so long was incentive to compete with America

2018-10-29 12:33:28 UTC  

no

2018-10-29 12:33:30 UTC  

They were so heavily propagandized

2018-10-29 12:33:52 UTC  

it would have still lived, the Soviets never hated the American people, they only hated the bureaucracy

2018-10-29 12:34:01 UTC  

Gorbachev ruined everything

2018-10-29 12:34:08 UTC  

They didn't hate us, they envied us

2018-10-29 12:34:21 UTC  

the military-industrial complex fell under the hands of the oligarchs

2018-10-29 12:34:24 UTC  

They wanted to be as successful

2018-10-29 12:34:45 UTC  

I don't think that's the case

2018-10-29 12:35:03 UTC  

but still, the achievements of the USSR under socialism was impressive

2018-10-29 12:35:19 UTC  

if they didn't do some drastic and wrong decisions the Union would have still lived.

2018-10-29 12:35:30 UTC  

Yeah, it's a good business model, I just don't think it's as good as capitalism

2018-10-29 12:35:57 UTC  

dude

2018-10-29 12:36:00 UTC  

Capitalism is a good business model because it will quickly process and expunge other business models that don't work

2018-10-29 12:36:15 UTC  

socialism isn't even a alternative to capitalism

2018-10-29 12:36:23 UTC  

it's the transition from capitalism

2018-10-29 12:36:45 UTC  

have you ever read about historical dialectics?

2018-10-29 12:37:17 UTC  

Oh I see, well I would still think that medicine and education should be allowed to function under a capitalist umbrella

2018-10-29 12:37:45 UTC  

we have seen "how well" the education and medicine industry does in the USA under capitalism

2018-10-29 12:37:59 UTC  

Student loan debts are out of control currently because the education systems are socializing

2018-10-29 12:38:08 UTC  

what?

2018-10-29 12:38:38 UTC  

Government subsidizing and risk absolving

2018-10-29 12:38:53 UTC  

Affirmative action

2018-10-29 12:39:39 UTC  

Programs that try provide access to education for those that can't obtain it otherwise are doing the exact opposite of what was intended.

2018-10-29 12:40:28 UTC  

even with the government cutting subsidies private schools are still more expensive imo, the USA isn't a good example of nationalisation, a good example of how nationalisation worked would be the Gotha program

2018-10-29 12:41:08 UTC  

plus college costs keep rising due to inflation and them charging too much for it.

2018-10-29 12:43:42 UTC  

The tuition rises because of government involvement. I don't think more government involvement would help. Schools need to demonstrate that they are in need of the money and this leads to Soviet Union type mess where you start to have teachers faking test score, attendance records, and just ruining the kids

2018-10-29 12:44:24 UTC  

The incentive needs to lie on just being a good school because the school down the street is also trying to be the best

2018-10-29 12:45:22 UTC  

The incentive shouldn't be, pass 50
Kids with an A and get a bonus at the end of the year. Or demonstrate that all your kids can pass this standardized test and the government will give you a grant for next year

2018-10-29 12:46:15 UTC  

The kids get passed along in this process, failing as they go, thinking that something is wrong with the system now and not them