Message from @raqdog
Discord ID: 506460269577502721
that's the bourgeois in a nutshell
yeah i think marxists conveniently eliminate the human condition in their laboratory-safe conditions
So then why blame it on the leadership?
If it will just continue to repeat itself?
@Egoy your conflating human nature with human behaviour lol. Read Peter kropotkin, he has clearly debunked the overused fallacy.
"We may summarize the Marxian doctrine in this way: In the beginning there are the 'material productive forces', i.e., the technological equipment of human productive efforts, the tools and machines. No question concerning their origin is permitted; they are, that is all; we must assume that they are dropped from heaven."
so? I don't understand the implication of the point your saying anyway. I'm not a Marxist, anyway.
It's the way hierarchal structures function
It predates or abilities to climb trees
@Leiro レイロ what are you then
historical materialism doesnt prove or mean anything
that's under capitalism lol, under socialism there would be no hierarchy
read Karl Popper if you still believe in historical materialism or historicism
Hierarchies exist in animals in our ancestral chain that predates our abilities to climb trees
Hierarchies are how we function. Put 10 kids in a room and they will form a hierarchy
A hierarchy of who's tallest, who's smartest, who is better at hand stands, whatever you want
I don't understand the point your saying in relation to socialism, if anything that signifies capitalism
The same leaders will rise to the top for the same reasons in a socialist society
there is no "top" in a socialist society, its democracy at its highest.
The benevolent leader you describe does not climb that hierarchy. And when he does he gets killed
it's liquid democracy
Even worse
That's probably even worse. Now we are talking about the 2 wolves voting to eat the 1 sheep
how do you tread the line between socialism and invidiual liberty in democratic socialism
its like an oxymoron
Democratic socialism is achieving socialism through democratic means, I haven't researched much on libertarian socialism
in a democratic socialist society they prioritize the authority of the bureaucracy over individual rights
that is literally anti democratic
what no, a bureaucracy under socialism is made up by workers, and for the workers. if your referring to to the state under socialism, it's made up of people, and will be under the whip of the people. As I said, I don't know much about social liberties or libertarian socialism in general.
you said youre a democratic socialist though...
Democratic socialism, as I said, is achieving socialism through democratic means. There's a whole new catered to that, called libertarian socialism
and you abandon individual authority for a more centralized bureaucracy (even if its filled with "workers") you are still sacrificing personal autonomy
im just pointing out that the term is completely oxymoronic
lol, socialism is about making decisions democratically and decided on by every worker, that suppresses personal and individual autonomy?
your argument is about libertarian socialism, I don't know much about libertarian socialism
yes because you have representatives representing the wants of a collective
lol
there are no representatives lol