Message from @Cal

Discord ID: 484471750483116066


2018-08-29 20:29:40 UTC  

Why? do elaborate

2018-08-29 20:30:04 UTC  

Yeah I'm also kinda curious

2018-08-29 20:36:13 UTC  

That maybe if we weren't taxed automatically to begin with (this only applies to those of able body to work and secure an income of their own) that maybe we could afford the services that they want and need as they need them....Idk..I'm still thinking..Just.. I don't know why I've never thought of it that way before...I hope this is cohesive enough to understand.. Lol

2018-08-29 20:36:47 UTC  

Just..mind blown.. I feel kinda dumb right now.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/482334234871070733/484461434970046465/Mind_Blown.gif

2018-08-29 20:41:24 UTC  

Well..conflicted.

2018-08-29 20:42:45 UTC  

lol We all woke up and grew up at some point lol, some sooner than others... There is a saying: "a fool thinks he is wise, and a wise man knows himself to be a fool." Give that some thought, it is pretty powerful when you realize how it changes your perspective. Either you are a fool pretending to be wise (every commie ever), or you are a fool that acknowledges you are a fool, and thereby learning not to be a fool and become wiser for it. It's a long journey, but it is interesting as you get to know yourself better, as opposed to being someone you are not, and forever tryign to please others.

2018-08-29 20:46:18 UTC  

@Darkseid so what do you think of the red pilling progress on Zombie so far? lol

2018-08-29 20:46:43 UTC  

Lol Thanks for that. I have genuine enjoyed that conversation though I have a lot to ponder about the subject now and have more concepts to play around with to form this perfect society in my head 😂

2018-08-29 20:48:44 UTC  

Trust me, don't try and look for something perfect

2018-08-29 20:50:20 UTC  

@ZombieQueen It's all about ideas really, and ideas need to be thought out, planned, and even tested, testing is important, but dont be obsessive about it. You know that definition of insanity? Repeating the same experiment over and over and over and over and over and over expecting a different outcome? Communism lol, it's an obsession... try other ideas, and you will find more empowering ideas that can do alot more good. it is the beauty of the free market, and freedom in general.

2018-08-29 20:58:45 UTC  

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and all that jazz.. You're completely right though, I think it's good to debate, to entertain new ideas in ways you never really considered, and to have your own views challenged. I just find it fascinating attempting to compile ideas and policies together like puzzle pieces to find a way to create a just and decent government, it's certainly a challenging feat, but it's fun to entertain nonetheless. @Sheamus

2018-08-29 21:01:14 UTC  

@ZombieQueen whats you runderstanding of a government and it's role and responsibilities?

2018-08-29 21:01:37 UTC  

it's not a trick question, it will almost always be different for everyone really

2018-08-29 21:03:46 UTC  

By perfect I mean at least attempting to find a balance between having a prosperous country, economy, decent and ethical policy, etc but also having enough to support\care for the most disadvantaged. Just a bit..so they don't have mass die offs and such..the impoverished, etc. @Cal

2018-08-29 21:04:20 UTC  

If anything I like learning about opposite ideologies so I'm knowledgeable when I'm shitting on them

2018-08-29 21:07:06 UTC  

My understanding of government? Imposing Tax on the public to allocate necessary funds in sectors that need the funds the most. That's basically what I think the purpose of a government is..I guess? More specific question maybe? I don't really know how to answer that one sufficiently. Lol @Sheamus

2018-08-29 21:07:55 UTC  

"but also having enough to support\care for the most disadvantaged." Problem with this sentence is that you accept people being disadvantaged, and intend to keep them that way by carrying them... knowledge is something you can give away without losing it, it is the greatest wealth you could posses. But you need to put in effort to gain from it, if you going to carry someones weight, they arent going to put in any effort, therefore you allow them to be disadvantaged then, this is why we dont like welfare, it makes you lazy and dependent and once you are dependent on it, you defend it. But that said, here is another saying: "give a man some fish, and he wont go hungry for today, but teach a man to fish, and he will feed himself for a life time"

2018-08-29 21:09:48 UTC  

@ZombieQueen lol no there is no specific question, you have an opinion or understanding of what it is, I just want to know... How you define things will depend on how you understand these things, and therefore will influence the way you build up the idea around it.

2018-08-29 21:16:35 UTC  

What is one to do if no one will hire someone or is never provided a chance to improve their lives if there is no basic (temporary) provision for them to merely sustain their existence? I completely agree with that proverb to the enth degree, but there are specific circumstances. Not everyone who is on welfare abuses it, or intends to stay on it for the rest of your life..I think one of the limits I'm aware of is 5 years and if you haven't tried to improve your life by then..then they re-evaluate your case and see if you're fucked enough or not to continue being supported. Welfare, Unemployment, and Disability are all different. @Sheamus

2018-08-29 21:17:31 UTC  

State run programmes that teach vocational skills

2018-08-29 21:17:46 UTC  

Afterwards you enter the free market

2018-08-29 21:17:48 UTC  

@ZombieQueen Yeah we call that the exception, not the rule.. when you say "but also having enough to support\care for the most disadvantaged." you are implying the rule...

2018-08-29 21:18:27 UTC  

What about the exceptions then? @Sheamus

2018-08-29 21:18:45 UTC  

Outliers are unfortunate

2018-08-29 21:22:02 UTC  

government is intended to enforce rule of law... if you make the government do these things, they enforce it as the rule of law. Exceptions are what you described, shitty circumstances of which the individual is not responsible for, and can not do anything about it themselves,. Idea is to encourage them though to get out of those circumstances, with incentives and moral support as well as equipping them with the knowledge so that all they need to do is literally put in the fucking effort and they will succeed if they keep true to the knowledge they are provided with.

2018-08-29 21:23:50 UTC  

Hence why I brought up vocational programs. Once you've got those skills you're a marketable asset. You are an asset and you use this to your advantage in a free market

2018-08-29 21:24:52 UTC  

Yeah agreed @Cal

2018-08-29 21:28:22 UTC  

Thing about that is access to reliable transportation which many do not have. How do we remedy that? How do we get those outliers uplifted and on the road to independence and gainful employment? What sort of programs? Or do we rely solely on charity? Or? I'm asking for examples, solutions, etc for those in those circumstances. @Cal

2018-08-29 21:32:44 UTC  

I am off and calling it a night, cheers

2018-08-29 21:34:16 UTC  

Nini! @Sheamus Gonna feed dogs brb

2018-08-29 21:35:59 UTC  

My idea is that we give to the state so the state can give back to us.

I'm talking about trades. The government can set aside tax from the coffers each year to subsidize a state run trade program to teach things like, electrical work, plumbing, welding etc. The type of jobs a country like ours needs.

Public transportation does require a huge reform though. It's too bloated and unwieldy, too many spaces for money to be lost

2018-08-29 22:15:29 UTC  

Personal tax - no, I would be willing to pay VAT on everything at a higher rate, that way everyone pays tax, the Government can put a higher tax on luxury goods such as cars over R1m etc. It would also be easier for government to control as they only need to police the businesses.

2018-08-29 22:18:09 UTC  

Public transportation is 100% non existent where I live, so the people who didn't have a way to the training would be fucked anyway. Simply wouldn't be able to get there. But, I do agree that vocational training is great!! Not enough accessible training here unfortunately though, so they go under-utilized. @Cal

2018-08-29 22:19:14 UTC  

VAT? @JJ

2018-08-29 22:19:58 UTC  

@ZombieQueen Value Added Tax

2018-08-29 22:20:13 UTC  

Thank you. @JJ

2018-08-29 22:21:42 UTC  

Sorry I was commenting on a post about 50 comments back 😂

2018-08-29 22:22:48 UTC  

No problem! I understood the context. I'm just eating, so I will give a better reply momentarily. ^.^

2018-08-29 22:23:53 UTC  

Bed time for me, enjoy your meal

2018-08-29 22:23:53 UTC  

GG @JJ, you just advanced to level 1!

2018-08-29 22:24:09 UTC  

Thank you! Nini sleep well.