Not really, American democracy is a pretty efficient system but regardless ill trade ineeficiency with tyranny any day

A democracy is just another form tyranny

Not really

The libertarian dream is dead

There are still hopeful libertarians, so not dead.

There is no hope for the west, not with liberals or social democrats and no, I'm not trying to convince you to believe me

There was never a libertarian dream, it was always finding the balance between individual liberties and social liberties

Yea wasn't really working

West is doing pretty well to be honest

You cannot be serious

How is it doing badly?

Europe is about to have a population replacement for one

Sweden is one third non native

Europe isn't exactly the west.

Hungary is under the tyranny of the EU

Not true, those projections is if immigrant populations maintain current rate sof reproduction and the evicence shows that doesn't happen so no that not really a good point you've madfe

Projections by who

Give me proof

And I'll admit I'm wrong

Who do you think, government agencies and staticians

theres a complete consensus

You'd trust a government institution?

Statistics.

You can do the math yourself if you want

the data is available

Lying to you is in their best interest

As long as you think everything is fine and dandy they won't have a problem

wait but then how did you come to the conclusion that the population is going to replaced if you don't believe the data in the first place

Sorry I live in reality

Everything is not fine and Mark my words it's all gonna come down

Ok

I'm not going by government data obviously

then who collected the data?

Must be some massive organisation that ive never heard of

What is your source of information then? @Cal

Some enormous extra-governemnt body that secretly doing statistical analyses and gathering data for some reason

even though the data already exists

Trust me though, European leaders do consider these factors more than you think they do. They do recognize and consider demographics.

But generally most western economies and governemnts are stable and quality of life I believe is at the highest in history in most places so the West is doing pretty good tbf

LIke one of the big reasons Germnay accepted so many Migrants wasn't humaniterian it was actually precise population managagment. Basically Fertility rates in certain European countries are quite low(This still doesn't mean islam will dominate) and literally in order to avoid negative population change they had to accept migrants. There are a host of reasons you want to avoid a population decrease but the majority of the reasons are economic and the Germans are actually hoping for a smaller decrease in fertility rates among Migrant populations that what is expected because then they would still be likely to undergoe negative population growth.

Don't get me wrong I acknowledge some of the consequences of these Migrants such as increased crime, higher instances of anti-semitic attacks(a lot more actually) as well as(decreasing but prevalent~) crimes of a sexual nature but unless there is an enormous sudden change in demographics that would have to