he ruined shit 7 set up

And that's why it's bad writing.

yes he did, but like i said, could just be he didn't know how to do things in a good way, and botched it entirely

Subversion for it's own sake is not a story.

wanted to remove everything and make his own in understandable, but intentionally do the complete opposite to make people hate it is an accusation that needs some evidence

also, its not like 7 set up much to start with

nah it wasent just "remove stuff to make it my own" because he never actually added anything

sure he did, he added rose and an animal abuse PSA

this movie starts with the characters running away and it ends with the characters running away

Like we expect Poe to be a hero. Someone who breaks the rules and saves the day. The subversion is that the qualities we expect to be present in a hero are in fact bad, and that he is fucking up the plan of the bitch commander. The bad writing is that there's no reason for the bitch commander not to simply inform Poe of what the plan is.

^

"how do we make good movie? I know, conflict for conflicts sake!"

to be fair, one motivation is "we are not entirely sure how they followed us, so we are keeping things a secret" but that would require writing that in the explanation later.

there are so many tiny changes like that which make 8 salvageable that they just didn't.

We expect good leaders to understand their underlings and not cause mutinies, but the subversion is Holdo is a complete moron and refuses to encourage or inspire even the least bit of loyalty.

what i actually find interesting is wondering if theres actually anything they have lefft to make a 9th movie from

i want vice admiral gender studies to be a traitor for that subversion without reason

The best way to get people to trust you and have faith in you when you ask them to do something dangerous is to publicly belittle them.

Works every time.

Really nothing has changed from 7.

if you really think about it, they have less at the end of 8 than they had at the end of 7

The big bad guy is dead.

oh fuck a toooooon of shit changes from 7

And they can just skip ahead a few years, so they have an army again.

What has changed from 7?

The big bad didn't matter. Came out of nowhere, died for no purpose.

7 set up plot lines

8 got rid of them

Not really

yes really

i mean, they still have the main bad guy, kylo. they just got rid of both his dad issues

his actual dad in 7, and his step dad in 8

Ray's family is nobodys? Could be a lie.

The knights or ren are still out there.

7 set up nothing really.

tbh

I was kinda expecting Kylo and Rey to be brother and sister. So that was a subversion as well.

I don't think most people expected that to be a thing.

Their force skype sex thing was a creepy AF in 8.

aside from "hey, empire 2.0 is back because......reasons. where have they been hiding, and why does the resistance need to be a thing? Because reasons. fuck it, we needed a reset button. these are the big baddies that have a fleet yet apparently have no planets they control and just pissed off the whole sector"

oh, and in 8 we just destroyed their fleet