"I don't want anyone to find me but i'll leave a map"

but the incompatence was a big factor in it

and all they had to do to fix that scene, is make snoke appear like it seemed kylo did

I don't know who that old hermit on the island was, but it wasn't Luke Skywalker.

same exact misunderstanding, but motive completely different

what you have to understand is that the key focus the writer for the last jedi had was "take any thing people want to see in this movie, and do the exact opposite"

the only thing he didint really subvert was ray and kylo

everything else was opposite world from what anyone wanted to see in starwars

is that really their motivation? or was he just that incompetent he didn't know how to remove all the old stuff to make new stuff in a good way

no it really was his motivation

its not just old stuff

do you have proof of this?

he ruined shit 7 set up

And that's why it's bad writing.

yes he did, but like i said, could just be he didn't know how to do things in a good way, and botched it entirely

Subversion for it's own sake is not a story.

wanted to remove everything and make his own in understandable, but intentionally do the complete opposite to make people hate it is an accusation that needs some evidence

also, its not like 7 set up much to start with

nah it wasent just "remove stuff to make it my own" because he never actually added anything

sure he did, he added rose and an animal abuse PSA

this movie starts with the characters running away and it ends with the characters running away

Like we expect Poe to be a hero. Someone who breaks the rules and saves the day. The subversion is that the qualities we expect to be present in a hero are in fact bad, and that he is fucking up the plan of the bitch commander. The bad writing is that there's no reason for the bitch commander not to simply inform Poe of what the plan is.

^

"how do we make good movie? I know, conflict for conflicts sake!"

to be fair, one motivation is "we are not entirely sure how they followed us, so we are keeping things a secret" but that would require writing that in the explanation later.

there are so many tiny changes like that which make 8 salvageable that they just didn't.

We expect good leaders to understand their underlings and not cause mutinies, but the subversion is Holdo is a complete moron and refuses to encourage or inspire even the least bit of loyalty.

what i actually find interesting is wondering if theres actually anything they have lefft to make a 9th movie from

i want vice admiral gender studies to be a traitor for that subversion without reason

The best way to get people to trust you and have faith in you when you ask them to do something dangerous is to publicly belittle them.

Works every time.

Really nothing has changed from 7.

if you really think about it, they have less at the end of 8 than they had at the end of 7

The big bad guy is dead.

oh fuck a toooooon of shit changes from 7

And they can just skip ahead a few years, so they have an army again.

What has changed from 7?

The big bad didn't matter. Came out of nowhere, died for no purpose.

7 set up plot lines

8 got rid of them

Not really