Message from @Arch-Fiend

Discord ID: 463175422402756617


2018-07-02 00:25:43 UTC  

I would say so, but im no lawyer

2018-07-02 00:26:08 UTC  

im just saying the lines between intrastate and interstate commerce has significally blurred (imo) since the advent of the internet and digital payment technologies

2018-07-02 02:02:24 UTC  

Prepping for a discussion;
race and crime: cultural Vs biological.

(Is the disproportionate representation of crime due to cultural/socioeconomic factors, or is it a biological difference; that blacks are just de-facto more violent?)

(Not gonna mention which side I'm intending to argue, as I want information from all sides.)

As is mentioned in "Theory of Race" by Wilson (1995), the discussion is "mired in an unproductive mix of controversy and silence" - and it's proving difficult to find sources that are up to date and relevant. Any helpful links would be much appreciated, if anyone has any to hand. (@tag me)

2018-07-02 02:17:18 UTC  

Nurture > nature

2018-07-02 02:18:03 UTC  

nurture = nature

2018-07-02 02:20:00 UTC  

morals are taught, not inherited

2018-07-02 02:22:26 UTC  

how we are nurtured effects our genetic growth and our ability to produce offspring, a minor example of that can be found here http://ccf.org/reproductiveresearchcenter/docs/agradoc356.pdf the effect of how you live your life on the life you bring into the world is noticible even on a genetic level given large populations and long scales of time this becomes the nature as culture and envirnments effect selection processes within the species which produces ofspring with different traits than those found outside the group that is breeding most often with itself than any outside group.

2018-07-02 02:22:59 UTC  

_Is this guy asking us to do his research for him_

2018-07-02 02:25:07 UTC  

that would be amusing

2018-07-02 02:25:40 UTC  

would be funny if i somehow got roped into doing that for someone to do a public debate

2018-07-02 02:29:52 UTC  

starting injectin falso info here and there 😃

2018-07-02 02:39:50 UTC  

LMAO no, I've been doing my own research too, just figured this might be a good place to find people who may already have some links to hand which could help me. Of course I'll be going through everything, as well as what I have so far.

2018-07-02 02:42:22 UTC  

my hypothosis is that you cannot simply take an average zygote from any person on earth and render an average person from them. their genetics has some effect on who they will become, as their treatment from conception to atleast the age of 25

2018-07-02 02:43:17 UTC  

longterm i think theres a relationship between genetics and envirnment that ultimately effects the diversion of species

2018-07-02 02:47:43 UTC  

Problem I'm having is the muddied waters - my compatriot keeps bringing up the race:IQ correlation (which he asserts is biological) and then the IQ:crime correlation to support his hypothesis that it's entirely biological.

Also states that race:crime is biological; he asserts this on the basis that on average, blacks have more testosterone and a higher fight-or-flight reflex... but since things like your posture, can chance your testosterone (and other brain chemicals), there's something to be said for a cultural/social reason for this too. Plus none of the studies I have found so far measure across cultures for the same races.

For example, the higher fight-or-flight reflex would be understandable for people who are constantly aware of external threats. #MudHutsVsDoubleGlazing

2018-07-02 02:50:37 UTC  

I mean, my main argument is "why does it matter".

Whether it's biological or cultural, you can't make policy around it.. you shouldn't, for example, make immigration policy that discriminates blacks because they have a higher propensity for violence.. that would be illiberal. But I really wanna drill down into the subject with him. Curiosity is peaked

2018-07-02 02:52:24 UTC  

im not sure how they messure testosterone averages between people but the only way i think there could be established a connection is by messuring the genes responcible for testosterone production because SO many factors go into testosterone levels in your native resting conditions that it can change after a few hours

2018-07-02 02:53:01 UTC  

The only problem I have is, Why are they obsessed with one race? If IQ is the problem, why not focus on high IQ people?

2018-07-02 02:53:13 UTC  

And not just the huawhite race?

2018-07-02 02:53:34 UTC  

My problem is that any result is meaningless realy

2018-07-02 02:53:46 UTC  

their argument is usually that iq and agression are conversely proportionate to eachother

2018-07-02 02:53:48 UTC  

You cant draw any policy based on this research

2018-07-02 02:54:05 UTC  

Because IQ is just a bi-line he's making to support his predetermined conclusion, imo. @shaving

And yeah @zutt , that's exactly what I said above

2018-07-02 02:54:21 UTC  

LOL shaving autocorrect

2018-07-02 02:55:00 UTC  

Like i dont mind them researching this

2018-07-02 02:55:17 UTC  

But you have to judge person based on his character

2018-07-02 02:55:21 UTC  

Not race

2018-07-02 02:55:58 UTC  

Yeah; but what's the point.

I'm with you there, but I still wanna have the discussion with him. Not just about why he thinks it's important, but also why he believes it to be true. Just out of curiosity more than anything.

2018-07-02 02:56:28 UTC  

when making national policys your almost always judging people by average traits relitive to group you can file them into

2018-07-02 02:57:16 UTC  

Yes but that is drawn on cultural grounds not racial grounds

2018-07-02 02:59:01 UTC  

As for why is alt right so obsessedwith it is simple

2018-07-02 02:59:47 UTC  

Well, I'm dead centre on this; There's no doubt looking at the figures that blacks commit more violent crime per capita than whites, in most countries. I don't believe it's entirely biological nor entirely cultural (though I think culture probably plays a bigger role; social disorganization theory)

I think it's worth examining the root cause, but as I mentioned in OP, the discussion is kinda taboo in the first place, which I think accounts for the "these kinds of people" arguments gaining traction

2018-07-02 02:59:58 UTC  

If you say that the problems with 3rd world migrants are due to their cultures that implies they can be taught adapt

2018-07-02 03:00:33 UTC  

If you say its natural you can say they are unable to coexist in one nation

2018-07-02 03:00:42 UTC  

And expell them all out

2018-07-02 03:01:12 UTC  

That's true, and both are bad outcomes. But refusing to acknowledge the facts as a problem, is also... problematic.

2018-07-02 03:01:22 UTC  

Agreed

2018-07-02 03:01:58 UTC  

You know, the people talking about blacks being shot more by police, but ignoring the fact that blacks commit more violent crime (requiring police intervention)

2018-07-02 03:02:18 UTC  

Well its complicated

2018-07-02 03:02:57 UTC  

In this case their skin calour serves as indicator of culture in policeman subconsciousnes

2018-07-02 03:03:23 UTC  

Fucking Shaving