But there should not be a scenario where I defend myself or another citizen honestly and then go to prison for it

It does light you up as a target if the criminals are not deterred.

Has there ever been a case where something like that has happened?

^woman was in a car accident, car was on fire, good samaritan pulled her out before the car went up in flames, she is now disabled, sued good samaritan arguing she would have been fine if he did not move her... she won...

Outside of America for sure

"Excessive force" if you defend yourself too hard

I think I've seen one case where someone got their open carried handgun pickpocketed , but really he should have been using a holster more like the police do where it's hard to get out unless you're used to it

^i love the concept of excessive force, oh you shot him when he was beating you with his fists, excessive force! :V

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/carrying-openly-make-target/

thanks

excessive force is very dicey.

@Schedrevka also why do you think gun robbers shoot the floor guard first when robbing a bank? :V

That's a bit different than an unexpected citizen carrying a gun

And that guy got mugged. Same thing would've happened if he had a new Iphone out

It's dicey because it offers unclear parameters in an unclear scenario as to how you're allowed to defend yourself

It's worse in Canada where you are expected both to run away and to announce any weapons you have and your intent to use them should that not be sufficient

You have to audibly up the ante when someone has already escalated to the point of violence

^well in the us, they have rules where if force is applied to a person who isn't a threat, you are now the aggressor, because a person mugging you all of sudden knocked unconscious, you cannot continue hitting him after he is not longer a threat..

Sure, and the endpoint should be when you are no longer at risk

If the guy was concealed carrying there is a chance he could have turned the tables on the mugger.

But who knows when the attacker is no longer a threat?

Sure, I don't think anyone's arguing that concealed carry is generally safer for the carrier

When he flees, falls unconscious or dies is a pretty decent baseline

^it's up to the jury to decide if the person is reasonably in fear of bodily harm or not... that's why it goes to court..

because the 'victim' may perceive that the attacker could still be a threat

, a guy cannot make it up since all facts will be shown in court when a DA looks at it, and you are like, "oh he's on the ground, but i still fear for my life, so i put another 3 shots in him" won't fly for the judge or the jury...

Plus if you don't want that scenario, don't attack people

^well if he surrenders, you cannot continue using the same level of force as lethal anymore, you can do a citizen arrest, however..

For sure

I'm just saying if you're worried about the grey area, try not assaulting people

but california wants all gun owners to give the assailants a day in court as they are stabbing you with a knife :V goddamn liberalism is a disease...

one politician was talking about how conceal carry allows people to be judge, jury and executioner.... was like.... umm no...

lol

Good rule of thumb is once the assailant is no longer attacking have him get onto the ground and call the police and make sure he doesn't go anywhere.

The definition of when you can use deadly force does allow you to gun down an escaping felon though.

well the rule of thumb is, always say you used lethal force to stop a threat.... do not say you have to kill him... this is where it becomes a legal trap where they can argue you use lethal for to kill, not to stop a threat...

But he is escaping though?

@Lucian actually, there was a case iirc where someone was running outside and was shot, i think the guy somehow got the jury to believe the guy was still a threat because the guy running threatened he was coming back....

What can get the cops in trouble is the portion where it says, "lesser means have been exhausted or cannot be reasonably employed"

They are trained in lesser means so in most cases it can be reasonably employed they also have tasers which work sometimes.

well taser doesn't work after 1 ranged deploy and 2 dry stun, indoors so no go on oc spray...