Ok, by examining its flaws we can methodically and consciously understand where selflessness is required for the greater benefit

I don't think we can quantify that sort of thing. It's far too complicated. And what would the end goal be? Writing a rule book and hoping people follow it?

There's a lot of criticism already to study on where the principles of Kant, Betham, Mill, etc break down.

I think it would be perfectly selfish to empower a government that reduced/eliminated the risk of individuals or groups perverting the laws for their own selfish behavior

Yes, it would be selfish to force others to forgo their own selfishness.

It would also be oppressive.

On an individual basis. Determining this for myself will let me know I am acting in both my and societies best interests

I think rather than trying to assign selfishness values to each action you should instead consider how your actions align with the principles you hold most dear, and how they will affect the world

How would preventing individuals and groups from changing law to suit benefit only their group be oppressive?

I suppose there's different kinds of selfishness. Like "I want to have lots of sex because it makes me feel good, regardless of the consequences," vs "I want my name to be in history books because of my contributions to western civilization."

Sorry, I misread that part.

True, everyone has motivation. Many selfless acts are invariably motivated by selfish desires.

But by contrast there are those that act selfessly out of selfless desires, EG the anual gold coin brigade. Persons unknown slip $50 or $100 dollar gold coins into Salvation Army kettles each year to the tune of thousands of dollars and are know only to god.

Are acts done to make yourself feel good really selfless though?

Hmm yes

In the end does it matter when the result is the same?

I think the act itself is selfless but the motivation can only be selfish

When I offer to make my Mom a cup of tea it doesn't make me feel good, and I'm not thinking about how she may reward me. In my head I'm going "ugghhh I don't want to do this". But I do it anyway because I know how much she's done for me and it's the right thing to do.

Many people do have selfish motivations, but not all. And even if they do I don't see that as such a bad thing when it results in good for others.

Not really, it satifies nothing for the people who are part of the gold coin brigade. It cost them money and they get nothing in return, no praise, no validation, no thank yous,

So acts done due because of social obligations are selflessly motivated. Hmm

@Khanclansith I think you underestimate the personal value.

If someone saves a man's life because he wants to get on TV I don't think that will really matter 100 years from now when that saved man's grandchildren are going to college, and the savior is dead with no one knowing his motivations. It'll be lost to time, but the impact of his good deed won't.

Yeah

Selfish deeds can and very often are good deeds.

Does it matter if the people who built Rome were selfish?

Buying a porsche is a good deed for all the people who supported making and distributing it.

The same thing can be said about Greed. the foundation of applied Capitalism is socialy constructive Greed. "I See, I want, I work, I save, I buy, I have."

I agree

I suppose you have to look at individual acts to see if they are in and of themselves petty, destructive, and/or deny others personal liberty

Marxist theory states that people should elimate Greed as one of the things needed to make a Utopia, but it can be a motivating factor that helps all society.

NPCs can't stop being greedy

How did Marx propose eliminating greed from the lumpenproles?

Haha marxist video game where all the items are given to you but then you are destroyed when you decline giving things to others

The only good games that came out of Marxist countries were puzzle games.

Tetris being the best known one

Hey, what about Pyongyang Racer?

Cheep rip off of Crazy Taxi.

There is a trend I notice, people confuse, Rare or Unavalible with Good. EG the US Shooter communities group think that Norinco carbines are great (Banned in the US) vs the Canadian's views, (good-ish for the cheep price!)

From what I've read the only good product Norinco makes is M1A receivers. One of them plus a M14 parts kit can apparently make a solid rifle.

But yeah, it's definitely a recognizable phenomenon. I think they're called Veblen goods.