A topic came up in general chat, thought the question would be better put here.

Why do people think eugenics is evil?

It's a critical part of almost all our biological infrastructure.

Yeah it is a better space for it. I'm not exactly *for* it but I know its a possibility again.

Memes will eventually be our main source of communication by 2050

Or sooner

Isn't abortion a form of eugenics?

I suppose it could be considered a facet of.

Abortion is indiscriminate, unless used purposefully to avoid things like downs

Generally my understanding is most of the work is done before that's come about.

But thats exactly it, eugenics won't be an idea that comes up from the libertarians or conservatives, as people think. it'll actually be the left.

You don't shoot unfit cows, you carefully breed ones with the qualities you want.

Right. So people don't have issues with the concept, they're just concerned that it would be misused?

it'll be the ones who dont mind abortions and while they say they love disabled people, will understand they can't uphold the economy unless a few fall on the sword

At this point we are just better off waiting for gene therapy rather than developing legal eugenics for the present day.

If you carefully breed cows you tend to shoot the weak ones less because there are less weak ones.

well yeah, gene expression is a cute way of enacting eugenics

I think the only moral and ethical way to handle gene therapy is to be indiscriminate in its application to health and capabilities.

I don't want a GATTACA society that has a society stratified based on genes.

I'd say as long as it weeds out diseases and disabilities I'm all for it. If people suck after birth for reasons of their own doing i'm cool with that.

I mean, if genes influence our performance, then any meritocratic society is at least going to be partly stratified based on genes.

But you cant' really have a laissez faire society and yet have such strict foundations.

Playing with eugenics would be perhaps the most dangerous power we could ever acquire.

a teifling has rights too!

We cannot give over are own genes over to capitalism and consumerism.

Any gene-therapy we do should be as available as a vaccine.

I'd agree, but it would come from a government level wouldn't it? At least thats what science fiction would propose. I'm usually very pro market, even when it comes to health care, but genetics is something everyone should have an equal foot on just as nature intended.

Imagine the conspiracy theories that people will come up with then...

About all the things they do to our genes. Like making us drones and genetically subservient beings.

Romansh should become the new lingua franca.

Change my mind.

Eugenics was very popular in 1900s America and really worldwide. It was closely tied to the popularity of Darwinism at the time.

A number of the early abortionists were actually very, very big on eugenics (most well known being Margaret Sanger--founder of Planned Parenthood--were very much in favor of performing eugenics to wipe out classes of people.

Eugenics, along with a number of related concepts like Social Darwinism, were extremely popular for awhile (at least among the upper classes) until the Holocaust left a bad taste in everyone's mouth and it all fell out of favor.

If you go around certain places (like universities) and pose as the right people and ask the right questions, you can still find a number of eugenicists (primarily on the left in my experience, but considering this is academia there's a bit of a sampling bias). Typically they arrive at population control as an environmental necessity and approach it from that angle (there's just not much need to preserve all those hill billy rednecks, ya'know?)

Eugenics itself is a bad idea because it's basically going to lead to what is effectively genocide.

It is also a direct threat to people and you should be very concerned that such a precedent could be set for you.

I agree

I personally believe abortion should only be offered (not forced) in the case of rape, incest, or health risks.

I put it like this; every person is personified as a flame. Man provides spark, woman provides tinder. If a man lights a flame in a woman's flammables without her consent she should have the right to put it out. And she should be given the ability to snuff a flame lit on damp tinder.

I'm not a religious person. I could see abortion as being a public good. Or maybe just a private one, but available. It meets both supply and demand.

But we got too many people expecting free shit, especially the poor who get pregnant more than those with money.

Then why don't we just try to make people value having sex as something that does after marry?
Educating people the point and purpose of doing it in the first
Not just having funs, but making babies, but doing these could prevent pregnancy , so you can have funs with killing babies
Or you could give babies to people who actually wanted them (sell)

I'm a religious person, so I see abortion as scary things, but I kind of understand why they need it
Lives of children are hopes in the end, so instead of killing them, we should try to give the hopes to someone else who can provide