Message from @Bookworm

Discord ID: 504511990354411520


2018-10-24 04:24:21 UTC  

God is a totality that is the source from which all comes from.

2018-10-24 04:24:31 UTC  

Abrahamic religions also carry a whole lot of '0ld sk00l' baggage.

2018-10-24 04:24:53 UTC  

Not really from a timeline perspective

2018-10-24 04:25:13 UTC  

Christianity is only 2000 years old.

2018-10-24 04:25:22 UTC  

And Islam only 1600

2018-10-24 04:25:30 UTC  

1400, I think.

2018-10-24 04:25:36 UTC  

You right

2018-10-24 04:25:45 UTC  

Seventh century

2018-10-24 04:25:50 UTC  

But Judaism is, what, 3000, 3500 years old depending on how you count it?

2018-10-24 04:26:22 UTC  

Yeah, but Judaism as we know it began alongside Christianity.

2018-10-24 04:26:57 UTC  

Rabbinic Judaism arose at the same time as Christianity, and both came from the same line.

2018-10-24 04:27:36 UTC  

I mean, Buddhism is 2600 years old

2018-10-24 04:27:57 UTC  

And that is the youngest of the Dharmic religions I believe, excluding Sikhism.

2018-10-24 04:28:28 UTC  

The problem is that Abrahamic religions are exclusivists

2018-10-24 04:28:29 UTC  

I don't know, it just seems disingenuous to try and change religious doctrine based off of what sells, rather than what one believes the truth to be.

2018-10-24 04:28:44 UTC  

Gnosticism has always been here.

2018-10-24 04:28:58 UTC  

The earliest known Christian work, the Gospel of Thomas, was Gnostic.

2018-10-24 04:29:33 UTC  

The Nazarenes, the judeo-christians of the first century, were believed to be Gnostic.

2018-10-24 04:30:10 UTC  

And a similar (possibly equivalent) sect, the Ebionites, were stated as Gnostics by the Gentile Church.

2018-10-24 04:30:14 UTC  

Gnosticism has existed since at least a couple centuries before Christianity, I'm not sure where exactly you could say they started to be a distinct group.

2018-10-24 04:30:31 UTC  

But what's your point?

2018-10-24 04:31:01 UTC  

I'm trying to refute your point of changing religious doctrine to what sells.

2018-10-24 04:32:03 UTC  

But...changing religious doctrine to sell it better to western audiences is your point.

2018-10-24 04:32:21 UTC  

But who is changing?

2018-10-24 04:32:25 UTC  

I think Dvir is getting more to Gnosticism doesn't hold the view that God is an individual and a direct giver of laws.

2018-10-24 04:32:39 UTC  

I'm pretty sure that's true.

2018-10-24 04:33:52 UTC  

Gnosticism takes from Neoplatonic philosophy in many ways, and in itself is a merger of the Hellenistic values of the ancient world and the new Christian values.

2018-10-24 04:35:48 UTC  

And at certain points it was possible that Gnostic doctrine would become dominant in the Christian world. Valentinus, the founder of the Valentinian sect, was inline to become the Pope. It was only after failing to do so that he went his own ways.

2018-10-24 04:36:32 UTC  

And Valentinianism spread throughout the whole Roman Empire, admittedly being primarily practiced by the educated and academics rather than the commoners.

2018-10-24 04:36:47 UTC  

Okay. I'm pretty sure that's all accurate.

2018-10-24 04:36:58 UTC  

I'm sorry, I think it's because it's late for me, I'm just not following.

2018-10-24 04:37:23 UTC  

Can we pick this up later?

2018-10-24 04:38:44 UTC  

I've been trying to follow the conversation and from what I get it's more that melding Gnostism with Christianity would help shore up those parts of Christianty that turn people away from 'religion' and towards more materialistic and nihilistic thinking.

2018-10-24 04:39:49 UTC  

Okay. I understand the utilitarian viewpoint, but I'm afraid I can't agree.

2018-10-24 04:40:00 UTC  

Beliefs should be based around what is correct, not what is useful.

2018-10-24 04:40:22 UTC  

How come no one is debating in the voice chat?

2018-10-24 04:40:32 UTC  

But religion is subjective

2018-10-24 04:40:40 UTC  

Text is good for posterity, helps go over things later.

2018-10-24 04:40:45 UTC  

Just like any other form of the humanities

2018-10-24 04:41:01 UTC  

Hmm? Most religions have concrete statements about objective reality that are true or false.

2018-10-24 04:41:29 UTC  

The Gnostic view of the material world is largely disconnected.