and 6.2 and 6.3 perhaps

afaik there is no posting of the survey

How about they just don't go out and get drunk around a bunch of guys they don't know?
Any personal responsibility there?

Going out and getting drunk is a choice.

With a consequence all of society knows about.

being drunk? puking?

@JadenFrostwolf Yes people should consider that this stuff happens and should temper the actions accordingly, that doesn't excuse rape.

Oh come on, I don't think *anyone* says what I just did to "excuse" rape, and to try to say that I was doing so is disingenuous.

"None of the five measures of substance use since entering college were statistically
associated with being a victim of forced sexual assault during college."

hard to believe, but it's there

@JadenFrostwolf Sounds a lot like that since no one was having a conversation about rape prevention and you chimed in with what sounds like victim blaming

how would i know the accuracy of the study if i don't know the survey questions?

Not victim blaming, just people being responsible.

"the large majority of victims of sexual assault are victimized by men they know and
trust, rather than strangers. " <- from the study

yeah the most significant factor was being in a relationship with some form of physical/verbal/mental abuser

True, I shouldn't have said 'they don't know' because I remember learning about that in class, but my point about being weary still stands.

so... back to prohibition?

Yeah, *totally* what I'm advocating...

@JadenFrostwolf I guess what i mean is it sounds like you are saying that women should accept rape as a fact of life. Idk how i feel about a statement like that. It is a fact of life but we definitely shouldn't accept it

I think the reason that the "take responsibility" argument exists and is so controversial is partly due to the fact that going and getting drunk is NOT significant in the sexual assault increases occurring on college campuses

well if you can't get drunk around people you know and trust, why not just outlaw alcohol altogether... and yes i'm being sarcastic.

ie. most drunk girls dont call rape, its very low

Can you stop building up strawmen? I never said nor meant "it's a fact of life", especially one that can't be prevented or anything. I'm just saying that there is a level of awareness and critical thinking you should apply before being exposed to this kinds of situations in the first place.

As with just about any other situation based on surroundings.

Then why was the discussion earlier about alcohol if it wasn't a factor?

@JadenFrostwolf I never said what you are saying, i never constructed a strawman. I am simply telling you what i am reading from your comment. That is all.

@JadenFrostwolf If that is all you meant, i agree.

see THATS a good question, why do both sides center around alcohol/parties, when its clearly an abusive relationship thing

Actually we were just discussing the meaning of a question related to alcohol

@pukeblood, I haven't reviewed this study in a long time. Are you talking about the CSA study?

yeah

Mkay, and to be honest, there were so many messages I skimmed through them and didn't read them in-depth. I didn't know what was already discussed and such.

Okay, all we were discussing was whether drunkenness was something that barred consent according to the study

according to WHO it does, but if substance use isnt significantly associated with an increase, then most people attending parties/using substances have an understanding about drunk sex and it not being so black and white as the louder, more vindictive claimants of sexual assault make it out to be

Nah, I know there are people that full-on victim blame, and I know it can seem like that is what I was saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding, since again, all I was saying was that there to essentially just be cautious and think about the future/what could happen. Obviously, this doesn't apply if things go or events take place which you did not originally account for.

@pukebood WHO source?

world health org

i know, i'm asking for where to look specifically

http://www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/violence/global_campaign/en/chap6.pdf

Yeah, there is that too: a lot of the time I hear feminists going on about the "1 in 5" statistic, they also usually drum up alcohol and parties. I think maybe that is why I jumped into that topic, since it is the one that is usually being discussed on this issue, on both sides.

@JadenFrostwolf That CSA study is the source of the 1 in 5 stat