one person had to learn it, had peopel surrounding his fire, so it taught thme to do it so that they would leave his cave, what of that then

Isn't that how we survive and thrive, though, by passing down knowledge we've learned?

how is teaching a sacrifice?

people can't live for themselves if they're dependant on a force that can take it away from them arbitrarily

you mean if they don't have rights.

which was my original point.

we need Ayn Rand.

it's like achild and learning to read, if you constantly come to the childs aid and read it to them, they will learn that you will do it for them, and then they don't bother learning, so when that child goes to school, suddenly they can't do anything at school, they can't read and thne it effects if they can write or not

altruism
ˈaltruːɪz(ə)m/
noun
noun: altruism

disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others.

duty

dutiful sacrifice.

no it's not

Self-imposed duty and enforced-upon duty are two different things.

that is the person willingly doing it, it's not dutiful sacrifice

what part of disinterested and selfless doesn't mean duty?

both lol

Different people work with different moral rules.

Duty is an obligation, a requirement, a responsibility.

nothing of that definition says it's obligatory

nothing

its not sacrifice if a person puts a gun to my head and says you're gonna work for others or die

Thats slavery

yes, a moral or legal obligation.

the morality that obligates sacrifice is altruism.

I'd rather be able to stand on my own two feet, and decide for myself what's worth sacrificing for.

then you are selfish.

Blanket-statement.

yes Mr.Binary, thats why i think the true act of selflessness, is setting people free, aka, teach them to survive on their own

its a binary choice

sacrifice or don't sacrifice

live or die

Disinterested: 1. not influenced by considerations of personal advantage. 2. having or feeling no interest in something.

and selflessness is pretty much understood

i.e. not selfish and not valued

If that's selfish by someone's strange, arbitrary definition, I don't really care all that much. I'd much rather help people out because I want to, not because I have to. And I _do_ want to help people.

it's an act performed on your own free will

so to continue to support people with your money by force is not Altruism

But you can't always _just_ be selfless, because then, you don't ever focus on yourself. And thus, you're in a worse position to sacrifice and help.

you arne't doing it because you choose to, you are doing it now because you are being forced to

Heres a new perspective for you

How is being a ball and chain to someone else an act of self-sacrifice?

in other words, how is being the beneficiary of an altruist person making you selfless? if anything it makes you selfish, for using another persons sacrifice

I do not choose to have my tax money go to welfare

they force that upon me