it ceases to be altruistic.

Give a man a fish / teach a man to fish argument

Altruism is just gaining favor by showing how nice you are

a true form of Altruism would be to teach people to be independent and strong so they can live their life, find a good partner, and hopefully get children to continue the species as strong as possible

no

that is teaching people how to be selfish.

teaching people to be strong so they can find a mate and sustain themselves is selfish now?

I thought it was selfish to keep people dependent, so they vote for you cuz they know they can't survive on their own

no, that is altruistic, because you are sacrificing to sustain them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51pMod2Aaso

yes, and then what happens when you die? they die too because they learned to need your help, not survive on their own once yuo're gone

this is why Africa is such a dependent and shitty place, because those people are dependent on our help, which in turn keeps them infantile, like children because they can't grow up and survive

why would they? they get free stuff if they're helpless

>when sheep are docile and hopelessly dependant

Altruism is selflessness, but there is nothing about it that says it needs to be necessary in anyway, it can be entirely inconsequential, what ocelot is talking about is moralism

The umbilical cord is palpable.

I have been trying to explain this for about half an hour now. The dominant morality of the entire world today is altruism.

I wont argue that that is what people want to believe

i'm arguing that theres no altruism in keeping people in a child-like dependant state where their only way to survive is by your graces

i reject your view of altruism so to speak

Altruism isn't a moral, morals are very discrete

Everyone should have equal opportunities is a moral

but it is, because you have to sacrifice your produced value in order to feed them.

Which is why deporting illegal immigrants and building the wall (whether or works or not is another matter entirely) is actually the humanitarian thing to do for Mexico.

yes, like a Parent does to its child

no, that is a principle.

but a parent values their child living.

so it isn't a sacrifice to look after them.

A parent also values their child be able to sustain themselves, A parent is not gonna be around forever

yes

they'll want their child to be strong enough to survive on its own

Listen. Do you want to know the true nature of altruism? Communism. Naziism. These are the enevitable extremes of altruism.

THAT is the true altruism for me

To sacrifice your time and life(work) to raise a child to be self-sustaining to continue the species

which is what soceity if its REALLY altruistic should do, not take someones hard earned money BY FORCE mind you, and give it to any random schlob that says "waah i can't survive on my own"

Wouldn't communism and naziism be a form of forced altruism, rather than what Jay is trying to describe?

sacrificing yourself for the greater good becomes sacrificing **everyone** for the greater good.

It is exactly that Jaden

altruism eventually neccessitates force.

Communism is putting a gun to peoples head and saying "you're going to sacrifice your work and time for someone else" you don't get a say in it

which is why i reject your altruism position Revolver

the ultimate altruistic act is to commit suicide.

The welfare state started with altruistic views, people agreed to help others until they could get back on their feet and then they were cut off, now; that's not the case. People are forced to have their taxes pay for people that sit on welfare their whole lives. So people aren't doing it because they feel charitable, they are being forced to, which takes away the altruistic nature of it.

I don't fancy becoming selfish or short-sighted. Or dependant on a rug that can be pulled out from underneath of me.

it is to give up your life.

Allowing others to go against your morals can be altruistic so that makes no sense

and there is such a thing as learned helplessness and it can start as early as the age of 2