Message from @Grenade123

Discord ID: 465883188712046592


2018-07-09 13:54:42 UTC  

making them realize that no, god doesn't actually dictate who's land is who's

2018-07-09 13:55:23 UTC  

actually managed to get one to be a little less an-cap when i made him realize that what is his property is basically what i agree is his property.

2018-07-09 13:55:48 UTC  

otherwise its just whatever you currently possess at the time/can defend

2018-07-09 13:56:06 UTC  

i.e., if you leave your house, its no longer YOUR house unless i agree that it is your house

2018-07-09 14:08:32 UTC  

unless you leave someone to enforce your claim to the house

2018-07-09 14:08:48 UTC  

and even if you don't leave your house, if i don't agree, i can come take it

2018-07-09 14:08:55 UTC  

try to atleast

2018-07-09 14:09:08 UTC  

but i get your point

2018-07-09 14:09:43 UTC  

well if you leave someone to enforce your claim, its technically THEIR house unless they agree to give it back once you return....or you oust them.

2018-07-09 14:09:56 UTC  

well, yes, technically

2018-07-09 14:10:39 UTC  

boy did that Russel some jimmies, because most of them agreed the foundation of most forms of government came out of necessity to set private property rules

2018-07-09 14:11:24 UTC  

so having to admit that you need to cooperate with your neighbors to define what is private property, lead way to having some kind of local government.

2018-07-09 14:11:25 UTC  

yeah, thats a thing ancaps conveniently forget,
Government is there to enforce peoples claim to their property

2018-07-09 14:11:58 UTC  

and what happens when when a bunch of local governments group up? you get a larger government

2018-07-09 14:12:04 UTC  

I mentioned this yesterdy in the debate channel when arguing with poptart about ancaps

Ancaps pretty much just want their own smaller government where they think they will be king

2018-07-09 14:12:21 UTC  

and so on, and so on, until i disproved their idea that government has no rightful claim to do what it is doing.

2018-07-09 14:12:23 UTC  

but those get swept away by a bigger collective

2018-07-09 14:12:49 UTC  

and then they tuned out, forgot what we just talked about, and said to new people "the government is not legitimate"

2018-07-09 14:13:00 UTC  

In an Ancap world,

Negan is king

2018-07-09 14:13:22 UTC  

i also argued that what they wanted was a return to tribalism.

2018-07-09 14:13:27 UTC  

which they tried to tell me no

2018-07-09 14:13:47 UTC  

the warlord with the biggest collective following him, will just crush any Ancap group, take their stuff, expand and conquer more
Until you have an Empire under their new Emperor (the warlord)

2018-07-09 14:13:47 UTC  

but couldn't explain how

2018-07-09 14:14:00 UTC  

yep

2018-07-09 14:14:10 UTC  

"but community defense!" they cried

2018-07-09 14:14:40 UTC  

which, to an extent, and armed population is much harder to conquer

2018-07-09 14:14:59 UTC  

See how community defense works when the US military tramples through your front door

In an ancap world theres no "country" so its just small communities

2018-07-09 14:15:03 UTC  

but you still need a military to answer another military

2018-07-09 14:15:18 UTC  

Iraq stood a better defense against a country like America than an Ancap society ever will

2018-07-09 14:15:20 UTC  

just small communities, aka tribalism

2018-07-09 14:15:23 UTC  

yes

2018-07-09 14:15:28 UTC  

tribe-sized small communities

2018-07-09 14:15:48 UTC  

that was my next argument, that going back to tribalism, we will just progress back to here most likely.

2018-07-09 14:15:56 UTC  

so why not fix now

2018-07-09 14:15:57 UTC  

An armed population is far harder to conquer assuming you're not willing to go all razed earth on them

2018-07-09 14:16:28 UTC  

but its the same falacy

"If people just did what I want, things would work out"

In socialist utopia, everyone gladly works to the max, during all time
In Ancap utopia, everyone works and theres no hostilities between people

2018-07-09 14:16:29 UTC  

razed earth really doesn't do anyone any good

2018-07-09 14:16:38 UTC  

unless you are really afraid of them

2018-07-09 14:16:44 UTC  

or just spiteful

2018-07-09 14:16:44 UTC  

Or are just after the land

2018-07-09 14:16:59 UTC  

what is the point of land if you have destroyed all the resources