Message from @DrYuriMom

Discord ID: 505202349829259285


2018-10-26 00:42:35 UTC  

Meh

2018-10-26 00:42:45 UTC  

anyone who already buys into the "Right wing are evil terrorists"

2018-10-26 00:42:52 UTC  

already buys into it.

2018-10-26 01:56:00 UTC  

@Undead Mockingbird : "Everybody seems to have the same suspicion.
All damn propaganda."

Not 'everyone', sadly. Watched a conversation on another forum yesterday/today where an associate of mine raised the possibility of a false flag(possibility, not surefire knowledge of), and to this hour is still being slammed down by friends we've mutually known for *years* at this point as making as stupid a claim as being a flat earther

2018-10-26 02:07:53 UTC  

Looking up at the discussion of meritocracy and feminism being incompatible is like saying apples and alternators are incompatible. They have nothing inherently to do with each other.

2018-10-26 02:08:13 UTC  

Then again, I suppose that depends on what you define as meritocracy and feminism

2018-10-26 02:08:32 UTC  

100 years ago women in the US did not universally have the right to vote

2018-10-26 02:08:51 UTC  

Guaranteeing that right to women as well as men was a feminist action.

2018-10-26 02:09:04 UTC  

Is that incompatible with merit?

2018-10-26 02:10:05 UTC  

@DrYuriMom They don't have anything to do with each other normally... until you take your apple and slam it into the muffler of a car and cause it to stall out. That's what feminism is doing to meritocracy.

2018-10-26 02:10:24 UTC  

Tbh men are not guaranteed the vote in the US

2018-10-26 02:10:31 UTC  

Not across all states at least

2018-10-26 02:11:44 UTC  

@Beeman they are unless they have had their civil right revoked as part of the criminal justice system

2018-10-26 02:11:59 UTC  

Which can happen if they don't sign up for SS

2018-10-26 02:12:22 UTC  

That's an issue with the selective service laws

2018-10-26 02:12:24 UTC  

Look at that CERN scientist who was suspended after he pointed out that the STEM field is making an active effort to prefer women 2:1, which was confirmed by several studies.

Are you really telling me that FEMINISM giving women a 2:1 advantage, and MERITOCRACY which consistently favors men for being more stable in the field and stronger contributors, are not at odds?

2018-10-26 02:12:37 UTC  

It's a rights issue

2018-10-26 02:12:54 UTC  

But not an issue that women are at fault for

2018-10-26 02:13:24 UTC  

Women's groups aren't fighting to be part of the draft, for the most part

2018-10-26 02:13:46 UTC  

@JustTom, I don't argue that. But there are gradations of feminism.

2018-10-26 02:14:39 UTC  

Feminism, as a whole, must be taken into account. What they are doing en-masse. What the WHOLE of the group is considered doing, and how they are impacting society.

If you admit that a large portion of feminists are causing situations like that, then you are admitting that feminism and meritocracy are fundamentally at odds.

2018-10-26 02:15:23 UTC  

Let's back up here. @JustTom, can we start by agreeing that the 19th amendment was a good thing?

2018-10-26 02:15:34 UTC  

If it was just an outlier that society at large ignored and told them to STFU and GTFO, then I'd shrug them off and ignore them. But it's not. Society at large is bending the knee to the temple of feminists and abandoning meritocracy.

2018-10-26 02:16:19 UTC  

@Beemann , I suspect if you were to poll women in the US you'd find a majority would be willing to ditch the selective service.

2018-10-26 02:16:22 UTC  

I'm refering only and exclusively to your comment about "meritocracy and feminism being incompatible is like saying apples and alternators are incompatible. They have nothing inherently to do with each other."

2018-10-26 02:17:03 UTC  

So does the 19th amendment preclude decisions being made on merit?

2018-10-26 02:18:07 UTC  

I have nothing against the 19th ammendment in the initial spirit of it and the ideals it supports. In theory, it supports the merit that men and women can be equal, and are equally deserving of the right to vote.

2018-10-26 02:19:15 UTC  

If something else was said that fundamentally disagrees with my view, you'll have to repost it, because I'm not seeing where this particular line of discussion crosses with feminism vs. meritocracy.

2018-10-26 02:19:57 UTC  

My point is that 100 years ago suffrage was the epitome of feminism.

2018-10-26 02:20:17 UTC  

Yet suffrage has nothing against merit based decision making.

2018-10-26 02:20:21 UTC  

You're not going to get rid of the draft

2018-10-26 02:20:43 UTC  

@Beemann man, as a veteran myself I actually would advocate for women to be part of it.

2018-10-26 02:21:37 UTC  

But I'd be fine to end it, if that was the will of the people. My point is that the selective service need not be discriminatory.

2018-10-26 02:21:47 UTC  

Suffrage was a keystone of the matter due to it being an unequal starting point, which is in opposition of meritocracy, you're somewhat oversimplifying the whole situation though. Feminists of that era believed in a lot more than just the right to vote, even though it was a cornerstone of their rallying cries. And at the time, they rightly needed to be raised up and made equal to men.

How does that have anything to do with modern feminism vs. meritocracy though?

2018-10-26 02:23:09 UTC  

It is a starting point, Tom. If we couldn't agree on the 19th Amendment there's be no point in further discussion. I think in the end we'll be pretty close to agreeing, but I wanted to make sure we at least could agree that men and women as political entities and sovereign individuals had the same innate worth.

2018-10-26 02:23:37 UTC  

Fair enough. We probably do have the same end point, just alternate opening points of the topic.

2018-10-26 02:24:28 UTC  

or close enough to the same end point, as long as we both agree modern feminism has gone too far and their continued push to take more "rights" is absurd and clashes with the ideals of meritocracy.

2018-10-26 02:24:40 UTC  

So, next up. Do you believe that women should have equal access to the public school system? Again, it's been only in the last 100 years that this has been true consistently.

2018-10-26 02:25:19 UTC  

We do, Tom. I just want to make sure we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

2018-10-26 02:25:35 UTC  

Equal access and equal rights. Of course. Meritocracy fully supports that. And 100 years ago, that meant more women needed a leg up. In modern society though, it has, again, gone too far, and now men are very openly being discriminated against.