Also regarding General Welfare because this is very important, Article 1 Section 8 clearly defines General Welfare. If anyone can find anything in here that sounds like "welfare" is it's colloquially known today, they have a very large imagination. https://usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

mafia steals yourshit if you dont pay, private police lets others stel your shit if you dont pay

@whiic It is enough to rid the knee-jerk reaction that I am fighting though through, which is enough for my vague sense of localism to prevail I think.

Can we all agree that education is a right, therefore everyone should be able to access it without drowning in debt?

no

😦

not on the common sense

@whiic private police would be voluntarily funded and have competition. How is a state different from the Mafia?

The definition of general welfare is defined by the Supreme Court.

@DefinitlyNotInsane - NL What prevents private police from stealing as well?

You have the right to educate yourself, but you can't force anyone else to do it.

And pretending it doesn’t is mental masturbation.

To educate yourself, you need the means

The point of a right is that if you are isolated from society, does it still exist? For example, you don't require anyone to be around to have free speech. Someone has to stop you from having it.

@Turiaki We can agree that the education system has countless market failures, mostly due to government intervention.

@halfthink And different mobs didn't fight each other over turf? How is private police competing against each other different from mafia?

@whiic id say morality, but as soon as they start stealing id say they lose their title as "police"

@H3llbender True, that much is obvious

Is there a "no confidence" vote in the US Constitution? If not, there should be.

So you don't have a right to an education in the sense of going to a school. You don't have the right to healthcare because it has to be provided.

@DefinitlyNotInsane - NL Did morality prevent the mafia from operating?

@whiic well no but nobody joins the mafia to protect people from criminals do they

Title of "police" means nothing without some formal power granted to them.

There are states that are passing resolutions for a constitutional convention, as defined by the constitution. The error in their thinking is that the old people didn’t know more than us.

And they are just human. They are just as easily corrupted as mafia itself.

@Turiaki Ascribing positive rights to the population at large is an *incredibly* dangerous thing to do.

@whiic market forces would create a tendency towards property rights being the only rights protected, while a monopoly has a tendency to systematically violate property rights.

Any state convention would definitely lead to worse results.

What do you mean by that?

Oof

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights

A lot of people think you have a right to protection. You don't. You have right to life and liberty, that's different.

The protection (by law) is a protection of the rights.

Government was established to secure rights, not grant them.

Negative vs postive rights = rights vs privileges.

People have the rights, the constitution should limit the government’s ability, not the people’s rights. The rights are within the people.

To simplify, a negative right is a protection from something while a positive right is an entitlement to something

The people give up freedom to be governed.

An example of a positive right is the right to a speedy trial

The government doesn’t grant rights.

Who grants them?