The people give up freedom to be governed.

An example of a positive right is the right to a speedy trial

The government doesn’t grant rights.

Who grants them?

God!

God.

Gouuuuud!

the BIG G-O-D

People will contest if positive rights are a thing at all, often

Gawwwd does not exist. Sorry.

Then use some other higher power.

Doesn’t have to be god.

Does not exist either.

God as the religious one or as a shorthand for nature

A level above government grants them just for being people.

part of the reason they are called 'natural' rights

And even if we assumed it did exist, what are the rights granted by that higher existence?

@H3llbender Which are the natural rights? Which rights did God give us?

But having public schools that are mostly paid for by the government (taxpayers) is a good thing, as long as the government manages its resources well and doesn't tax people like crazy

Property rights are the natural rights.

For example, many (even libertarians) think copyright is natural.

The rights god (or nature) grant is are all the rights we have except the ones we relinquish to government.

Exhaustive list.

An illiterate person is a social outcast, in today's world

I think that's the biggest load of shit I've ever heard, to argue copyright monopoly as a natural right.

Intellectual "property" rights are postive rights.

Because it's "property". Property of an idea. Or word.

I've quite literally never talked to someone who called copyright a natural right

Most ancaps reject IP rights.

The idea is that you have all rights. The only non-rights are anything which infringes the rights of another.

@halfthink But isn't all property kind about positive rights?

Property rights are pretty much "Don't fuck with my shit"

@whiic no, socialised institutions to protect them are though.

How it becomes "my shit" and how one defines "fuck with" are various things

Especially when it comes to common property

Capital is generally required to have copyright. Since you invested something into the idea.

For example, is any land you circle with a fence "your land"?

Under some definitions, yes

If you can defend it, sure. You put money into circling it. Capital.

Capitalism.

"worked" land is activating a part of my memory