@DefinitlyNotInsane - NL Did morality prevent the mafia from operating?

@whiic well no but nobody joins the mafia to protect people from criminals do they

Title of "police" means nothing without some formal power granted to them.

There are states that are passing resolutions for a constitutional convention, as defined by the constitution. The error in their thinking is that the old people didn’t know more than us.

And they are just human. They are just as easily corrupted as mafia itself.

@Turiaki Ascribing positive rights to the population at large is an *incredibly* dangerous thing to do.

@whiic market forces would create a tendency towards property rights being the only rights protected, while a monopoly has a tendency to systematically violate property rights.

Any state convention would definitely lead to worse results.

What do you mean by that?

Oof

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights

A lot of people think you have a right to protection. You don't. You have right to life and liberty, that's different.

The protection (by law) is a protection of the rights.

Government was established to secure rights, not grant them.

Negative vs postive rights = rights vs privileges.

People have the rights, the constitution should limit the government’s ability, not the people’s rights. The rights are within the people.

To simplify, a negative right is a protection from something while a positive right is an entitlement to something

The people give up freedom to be governed.

An example of a positive right is the right to a speedy trial

The government doesn’t grant rights.

Who grants them?

God!

God.

Gouuuuud!

the BIG G-O-D

People will contest if positive rights are a thing at all, often

Gawwwd does not exist. Sorry.

Then use some other higher power.

Doesn’t have to be god.

Does not exist either.

God as the religious one or as a shorthand for nature

A level above government grants them just for being people.

part of the reason they are called 'natural' rights

And even if we assumed it did exist, what are the rights granted by that higher existence?

@H3llbender Which are the natural rights? Which rights did God give us?

But having public schools that are mostly paid for by the government (taxpayers) is a good thing, as long as the government manages its resources well and doesn't tax people like crazy

Property rights are the natural rights.

For example, many (even libertarians) think copyright is natural.

The rights god (or nature) grant is are all the rights we have except the ones we relinquish to government.

Exhaustive list.

An illiterate person is a social outcast, in today's world