If you cannot defend and reiterate someone's point from the ground up, you cannot truly debate them at all

It's why I liked being in a ancap server so much

Let me ask them questions to truly figure out their side

I'm a token Libertarian.

yeah for real. i mean here its nice that there isnt ppl spouting out their crazy radical ideas every which way but for debates its different

Only problem is that I ran out of stuff to ask questions about, all that remained was to read all the books the why guy said to read. Because his arguments where "this is fact, because of X's arguments in Y book."

and even then there is a reasonable way to at least articulate those ideas

Which tells me he didn't really understand what he was reading

even if the ideas arent reasonable

My solution: The rationalist community.

It's almost exclusively leftists (over 60% if memory serves) and almost all the rest is shades of libertarian.

But the less than 5% of reactionaries are vastly over represented in their servers because it's one of the few places where people are committed to having productive debate.

Slate Star Codex is amazing.

The problem is finding one that is not completely closed, then make them not feel attacked.

I don't understand Ocasio-Cortez' 'I was posting as an activist' statement. Like if you're an activist you're allowed to be ignorant about an issue?

yeah if you cant at least summarize said arguments in a book you didnt understand them fully

Which I admit, is very hard to do when you enter a server full of people ideologically opposed

even if u summarise them poorly its a good start

And I don't really mean physically attacked, but like ganged up on and not able to talk before being cut off

I think everyone is ignorant on something.

It's more an issue that she was taking a position she didn't really understand and she's running (essentially already won) for a position of power where her votes would have very real consequences.

yeah as bad as chats are for that tell me it wouldnt be 100x worse in a real room with like even 10 people in it hahha

As much as we hate safe spaces, youd really need to make a leftist and a rightist feel comfortable and welcome

And Israel is a very sensitive topic to alot of people.

It seems being an activist is something that politicans do not know much about. Then again, how many politicians of yesteryear are still activists?

I don't think it's a 'safe space' issue as much as it's a decorum issue.

@Grenade123 yeah well thats what civil discourse is all about

Right but I don't like when people hear a half-assed version of a story and immediately hop on twitter with their garbage hot takes...which I am now realizing describes half of twitter

It's just funny to see someone like that now a likely member of congress

You don't have to be well-versed on policies. Just issues and emotions now. Populism rules the day. It also rues the day.

It's like, on a free un-moderated server everyone wants to talk so the dominant position tends to overwhelm opposition.

It would be more effective if it were more like a formal debate with timed positions to avoid keeping people from getting overwhelmed.

Reddit is the worst at this, because then you get ideologically minded down/up voters.

Remember, these people live with a very fragile view or the world. And any time it is so little as cracked scares them.

Of*

^ The other big issue.

So it's extra hard. One good debate sends them running

Or when there's a major event and everyone floods to attack the people who would be harmed by the development

"asking for comment"

Imagine the debate between her and her opponent this Fall.

I'm sure we all know someone in some friend circle who does this.

It's very hard get them out of their shell. Particularly when they can't run behind their comrads to "recharge" so to speak

Like, I can't say how many messages I got about the 12 Russia indictments. I saw more "ARE YOU READY TO ADMIT YOUR WRONG NOW" posts everywhere (including on fairly 'closed' social media) than I ever did discussing anything about the idictments themselves.

I really like Margaret Hoove.r

Obviously, that's going to make people feel attacked.

It's also kind of shocking that R's are trying to downplay the endictments as if they arent a big deal