Btw human factor is also what is fucking the Brexit

There are many people who work for themselves

if a man will not work, he shall not eat.'

or have support mechanisms that are ...voluntary...for those people that can't work to make a living.

Its fascinating to watch

well theres a huge difference between refuse to work and cant physically work

That is why I guess most governments have programs for those

"if a man will not work, he shall not eat" dude !!! That used to be comunist party slogan in my country

yes but those programs are abused by those who refuse to work

So the problem is the people abusing

Big time problem

is it, or is the problem that we don't have clear enough methods of making distinctions between those abusing and those with actual limitations?

Would be both in that case no?

one is a problem the other is a symptom

Or rather when I say the problem is the people abusing is that the problem is about the people abusing

a problem is something that can be solved

hard to catch people that are abusing it without having surveillance on them 24/7

is it though?

yeah cuz without having them watched how do you know they arent acting/lying

The commies used to make ppl surveil each other

Their favorite trick was to coerce school children to grass their own family

grass?

i would argue that that is again a problem with our methods, or ways of measuring, our ability to gain knowledge.

"Tell on"

Well are you giving disability purely based on trust?

if they can act or lie their way into a disability.

its just hard to tell what is wrong with someones body with our technology. some problems you cant see even with MRI's and Xrays

or even CAT scans

i agree, was my point.

Reminds me, a guy I used to know was pulled out of school at age 14 and was never home schooled by his parents so his parents could collect welfare later on.

we would need some form of technology that could tell when something actually caused someone pain like in their joints or whatever else their complaint is that is keeping them from working

Wel it would be helpful, but I don't think it's necessary to reduce the issue.

Is there generally anything severe enough where you can''t work any kind of job and it can't be measured?

A start would be to introduce gradients rather than a simple binary.

sure, you have limitations, but your limitations aren't so bad, so you get some help

from my understanding there is.

its not like oh his leg doesnt work well so he cant work at all

my understanding is that person would not get any aid, because he can work

the current system is if you can work, even if you are messed up, no aid. You have to be so messed up you cannot work, to get full aid.

so a binary

i mean my mom has cerebral palsy and got SS but not the full amount someone that was completely unable to work got.