Topics to discuss after the half include the reading and language gap having been (and being) addressed and successfully reduced (and probably an brief argument that schooling ought to be responsive to gendered issues for both genders), and that telegraph article:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/11/16/boys-left-fail-school-attempts-help-earn-wrath-feminists-says/

No, I imagine just the title being something like "Issues for Boy's Education" and then just hitting the ground with that brief statement "Boys have particular needs with regard to education." to justify an explanation and then continuing into things. It may need improving

Ew, it does seem like handholding haha

But what you say is fair, it is abrupt as is

Indeed, lesson learned

aiyaiai.

https://outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/16405/how-to-safely-rescue-someone-drowning-as-an-untrained-bystander

Similar principles apply

Basically, panicky/crazy people are dangerous, you prioritize your own safety to to make sure you don't just add to the victim count, so use arms-length help if at all possible. If the situation is really bad, you wait for them to drown more and then they become easier to help

And generally, trying to save someone super-malicious unless you've got the sort of backup that comes with doing so professionally, is a bad idea.

@Men Are Human Actually, I did end up finding something useful in the Norway Study

"Overall, conditional on the high-stakes central exit exams, boys outperform girls on the low-stakes national one-day tests. Thus, the hypothesis that girls perform relatively worse when stakes are high is not supported." -- This is relevant to some of the studies (like the Israel and France studies) that have different tests they use for the anonymized and non-anonymized grading

Oh, for those who don't have the link: http://folk.ntnu.no/torbergf/Articles/Gender%20and%20achievement.pdf

MensLib is pretty unpopular on reddit, like in /r/AskMen for instance

It isn't really popular with feminists

and of course doens't get any traction with those who actually know how MensRights talks about stuff

..

It seems more effective than it is

But what I'm saying is that menslib doesn't really work

I share Abbysol's opinion on this

The cross-section of people who could find that useful are way too small

So I can't see that sort of community working out

And there is also FemRA

I think you really have to have come across the real MRM somehow in order to jump ship from that. For instance, I found it after watching Cassie's documentary.

but since real men's issues basically aren't talked about there

And I mean it actively tries to direct attention away from them. You can search the sub for Homelessness, Divorce, Domestic Violence, or stuff and find 2-3 results from years back. Actually 3 results was for Homelessness, the most discussed topic of the three.

So you aren't going to find the MRM through that

And that's the thing. I'm pretty sure people don't get dissatisfied with the MensLib way of doing things without first coming across the MRM

Compare the active users of /r/MensLib to something really, really fringe like /r/Antinatalism

Make it so that only conspiracy members can post topics

but anyone can comment

but that is going to be a hella small community

I see, so even 1/week for a few months would do

While some top comments from WPD are short, I think it would be hard to farm karma there

now /r/idiotsincars on the other hand...

Nah, this was only advertized on /r/mensrights, and only for a relatively short time

yeah, he is

But SPECS would mostly just call this silly. He understands that /r/mensrights is pretty antifeminist and would say that the nice feminists he cares about wouldn't really be affected by this sort of thing, since they aren't anti-equality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/a2vf9r/female_rapist_says_victim_benefited_from_being/

"‘By his own admission in the complaint (the boy) desired and maintained the sexual relationship with Ms. McCarter in order to derive a personal benefit - initially to extend his stay at the McCarters’ residence and then to ensure his return therein."

Huuurk

Economic divorce sounds...rather not the intended purpose of the thing

Valenti is some sort of self-parody

So, there is one aspect of the earnings-related issues that I found more interesting than the others (none of the aspects of the earnings gap that are related to post-second-child mothers -- most of them -- really matter to me). This article: https://equalitycanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Exploring-the-Boys-Crises-in-Education.pdf by the Canadian Council on Learning (government funded, now defunct) says this:

"Recent research has focused on returns in higher education and degrees
differing by gender, with the literature suggesting that higher rate s of
return for women, who often do not have access to some of the highly paid jobs
in industries (such as the resource sector) which may not require high levels
of education, may be one factor explaining the gender gap in higher education.
In other words, men may have alternative choices to earn very good wages
outside of the occupations requiring university graduation. Comparison of wages
by gender is an exercise fraught with methodological problems but general
trends seem clear."

In other words, part of the reason for post-secondary achievement differences is due to the physical differences in strength between men and women

Which, when both sexes are presented with a more equitable need for high wages, will drive an education achievement gap, as it becomes more necessary for women

Of course, that paragraph also sounds like it believes the wage gap itself is a real issue....but the actual point it is making is more sound

Oh, this isn't for the article, just part of my research. That document in particular covers the main parts of the boys education crisis from a slightly more men-centered viewpoint than moderate feminism and in particular notes the changes made to accomodate boys in certain countries (with respect to reading achievement in particular)

That paragraph is neat for the rest of us, not for the article that focuses on education outcomes.

..

Although it may be worth noting that I'm not going to mention the gender gap in post secondary achievement in the article, not so much because of that but because men are abandoning university because it is becoming less useful at securing a successful future

Whereas women seem to be less concerned about university not paving the way for a successful future -- as evidenced by taking gender studies and English degrees, for instance in greater proportions

An english degree isn't much better. If you wanted a job, you'd get a teaching degree

Though I suppose something like Art History is easier to mock

It isn't that English (or something *like* gender studies, were it a similar thing but not as much of a sham) isn't edifying, but that it still doesn't push you towards vocational success

As another research aside, The OECD PISA (something something school achievement) find really weird and interesting things

Girls in almost every country and economy tend to value
relationships more than boys, meaning that girls agree more
often than boys that they are good listeners, enjoy seeing their
classmates be successful, take into account what others are
interested in, and enjoy considering different perspectives.
•
Boys in the majority of countries and economies tend to value
teamwork more than girls, meaning that boys agree more often
than girls that they prefer working as part of a team to working
alone, find that teams make better decisions than individuals,
find that teamwork raises their own efficiency, and enjoy co-
operating with peers.
•
Advantaged students in almost every country and economy
tend to value relationships more than disadvantaged students,
while disadvantaged students in most countries and economies
tend to value teamwork more than advantaged students.

•
Girls and disadvantaged students were less likely than boys and
advantaged students to report high levels of life satisfaction.

-- random stuff from PISA 2015: https://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisa-2015-results-in-focus.pdf

The PISA 2009 study is the one that really tackles boy crisis stuff though

• There are no significant performance differences between
advantaged and disadvantaged students, or between immigrant
and non-immigrant students, after accounting for performance
in science, reading and mathematics. But girls still score 25 points higher than boys after accounting for performance in
the three core PISA subjects.

•
On average across OECD countries, the gender gap in reading
in favour of girls narrowed by 12 points between 2009 and
2015: boys’ performance improved, particularly among the
highest-achieving boys, while girls’ performance deteriorated,
particularly among the lowest-achieving girls.

That last one is interesting because the 2009 report found no improvement for the gender gap in reading between 2000 and 2009

Oh yeah, I saw a couple of those reddit posts

That really is rather worriying

..

Urk. that telegraph article is basically just a teaser for this: http://www.menandboyscoalition.org.uk/conference/

but I can't find any information on what Cook says in the conference

sigh

..

Alright, so I've got more or less all the material I want for the education article

However, it is in need of being made somewhat more coherent, with a clear beginning and a clear goal. Mostly I've just written so as to cover the major points of boys' education issues as they relate to the school system, the things the school system has done about those issues, and a bit about the opposition to those issues and how those issues should be approached. When I put it like that it sounds cohesive

But it isn't yet

Draft 1

Hey, it worked

So that's relatively just plain-text-with-links

And you don't need to look at that one, I'll try to get some stuff done in the next couple days to make it more directed, but this way you (as in, anyone on discord) can see what is going on with it and comment if you like

Probably the biggest error in argument (as opposed to in form) in the document right now is where I get around to talking about US govermental education policy (pre-university policy) which I don't have a good understanding of at all.

@Abbysol haha, nope, my introduction was basically just the first sentence, as my conclusion is basically just the last sentence of the second-to-last paragraph. I wrote this almost top to bottom and posted it as soon as I got something workable together. To be honest, I'm not yet sure what a softer introduction should be, partially because I'm not sure how...(didactic?) I want to be. I'm not sure if I ended up writing more of a beginners guide sort of thing or more of a topics in boys education sort of thing. What it is *not* is "why boys lag behind in education" because we don't really know the answer to that question and that is quite possibly more related to fatherlessness, boys being harder hit by not having a decent home environment, and that kind of thing. Rather it lends itself more to answering the question "Do school systems face challenges in dealing with boys? If so, what?" I guess. That wasn't really by intent, honestly.

Actually, it better answers the question "What challenges do boys face dealing with schools?".

I think that will probably end up being the approach I need to revise the article around. Then my plan is to add some questions to the beginning of the first paragraph as InsaneCatarpilla mentioned around that theme (probably changing or removing the first sentence) and call that an introduction. Or is there a better way to tie these ideas together in a neat bundle?

"90% of adult rape victims are female." - RAINN

So, reliable source for statistics?

"Only 230 out of every 1,000 sexual assaults are reported to police. That means about 3 out of 4 go unreported."...

Individuals of college-age:

Female Students: 20% report
Female Non-Students: 32% report

So

Yeah

Yeah, that's sounds like what Hannah calls the Koss method

basically the researchers ask questions and call things sexual assault or rape, even if the "victim" doesn't identify it as such and continues a long-term relationship with the perpetrator

using broad definitions

I dunno, I think if you ever publish "90% of rape victims are women" you only have a cursory understanding of the issue, which is a problem for an organization with a name like RAINN

Yeah, I just put them through my browser history and found those

ew

Fox is that news company that lied and then used "we're just entertainment" as a defense

It was one of the first news companies to give up being...news

"the struggles faced by different groups of the same gender are different, so different solutions may be required". So, this happened in the worker's movement. Their answer was to focus on the problems that were shared first, but then also to **identify with** each others problems as their own even if they didn't have that exact problem. Their answer was *Solidarity*.

Sure intersectionality describes a real thing, but intersectional politics is ass-backwards, with as a concept "you can't identify with my problems because they are not your own".

The intersectional approach is fundamentally hostile to unity, and that isn't just a symptom of oppression olympics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIXjDFmC440&list=PLHt1Hh27h4Bu4hrLoGsk81XXF5dhDCusL&index=12