BrokenPolecat (Discord ID: 170315864795643905), page 1
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Robots wouldn't even fight as an army, they'd just make a bioweapon and bam, human problem fixed
I mean do you really own your land Hakeen?
Do you not have a mortgage or anything?
Erryone to the left of me is a commie
Didn't Sanders fix that with his staff
He kept paying them the same amount but they had to work less
Honestly the fact that his fix was that they got to keep the same amount of money but didn't have to work as much is more evidence of him being a good person than a hypocrite
That too, appeals to hypocrisy mean nothing
"Lol racism a thing? Why don't you just go to a country NOT ravaged by Western imperialism, like uh.... Uhhhhhh....."
How the fuck you gonna have laissez-faire and monarchy
If we talking about whistle blowers shout out to Chelsea Manning who is still in prison and being fined $1000 a day
the 100 million dead statistic comes from the black book of communism, a book which multiple of the authors have stated is literal propaganda in which they explicitly lied about the numbers on
Also spicy take of "no deaths caused by lack of access to basic goods can be attributed to capitalism, but anytime that happens under communism it's communism's fault"
Capitalism is not the absence of controls
If I occupy a vacant house I will be arrested and if I resist, potentially killed by police
It is literally an instance of the state enforcing capitalism
What does capitalism mean to you
Yeah that's not the definition of capitalism
Capitalism is a system in which the means of production (trade, industry, etc) are privately owned and operate with a for profit motive. What constitutes as "voluntary" especially when it comes to an economic system is an incredibly abstract and subjective concept
Your definition of capitalism is some weird shit that's arisen as the definition in the past 50 years and isn't what any of the previous proponents of capitalism used
Free market is not the same thing as capitalism
Free market capitalism is a variant of capitalism
Much like how a direct democracy and representative democracy are both variants of the much broader political system of democracy
The Nordic model is an instance of capitalism in which there still exists private property and privately owned means of production, but there is still regulations, thus it is not a free market
Just because you can't do whatever the fuck you want doesn't mean private property doesn't exist
A state can have personal freedoms even if you're not allowed to commit murder
So what do you call it if I own a company but still have to follow state laws
Give me the answer for a yes and a no
I just said tell me what you're answer would be if I did consent and if I didn't
That's not what socialism is m8, also I just realized the previous definition you gave literally goes against your argument. In it, it states that capitalism is the dominant economic model in the West nowadays, but by your standard capitalism would have never been implemented to any notable degree in any Western country
Holy shit dude words mean things
There is a whole massive spectrum of political ideology and your weird reductionism of everything to "capitalism vs authoritarianism" reads like an AI trying to replicate cold war propaganda
God damn vulpes out here with genuine nuance and an actual understanding of what economic systems are
I'm not saying socialism is pure, it has been riddled with all sorts of fuck ups throughout its history, just the 100 million number is annoying to see get tossed around all the time
I fall fairly into a mixed bag of deontology and consequentialism
"back when I was a fascist"
The fascist to ancap/ancap to fascist pipeline is god damn astounding
This isn't even me trying to make any moral claims it's just genuinely shocking to me
See that stuff makes sense to me, cause a lot of ancoms/communists/socialists have pretty similar end goals, it just gets bogged down in stuff like vanguardism vs council communism vs demsocs. I just genuinely don't see the ancap/fash overlap in any moral standing
Lol I don't hate myself and am pretty happy with my own identity
Well in like ancap or fash morality either, I've interacted with a good deal of both and have picked up on a decent bit of like the ethical backbone of those ideologies and I just can't get how there is so much overlap. Also yeah for sure go spend time with your fam if you need
Blaming literally all deaths in a war is a new take on calculating the death toll of communism
Damn I can't believe the Americans killed over half a million people in the revolutionary war smh 😞
Also the highest estimated death toll actually given in the Chinese land reform page you gave is 5 million, neat that you didn't cite that though, also the claim that most their population were land owners is fucking wild
That was not even remotely close to being the case in China, the vast vast majority of people did not own land
Further the famine caused during the great leap forward had a very high death toll yes, but was caused by a wide variety of issues, and, as the Wikipedia article points out, the high number of deaths largely comes from how many people China has in it, not the actual lethality of the famine itself.
For the most part had their land confiscated and redistributed.
You think every single land owner was like "grrr I'm gonna fight to the death to keep my apartment complex"
No a lot of people were, I'm not saying they weren't, what China did was fucked
Yeah China was willing to kill a lot of people, I'm not saying China was good, but they didn't kill the number of people you're trying to make it out to be
Crazy how you can't provide actual statistical data for that amount of deaths then and the people that spent a fuck ton of time researching this to try and make communism look bad literally admitted to having to exaggerate just to meet the 100 million landmark
Probably cause he was wrong
It's like you didn't read the article you cited
Holy fuck dude you're just saying the same thing over and over again
Seeing as the highest estimates for people killed is 5 million I'd say the rest of them didn't die
Cause you know I actually use research instead of "Well this is how many rich people there were so I'm just gonna guess how many of them died"
"What fucking research" maybe the 7 different citations given in the Wikipedia article you cited
No ur right, I'm sure tons of people were like "oh boy should I give up my land or have me and my entire family executed, this is a really really tough decision to make"
Damn, if that's all they owned, must've sucked for the 91 million peasants that owned less than that, they should've done something about that
In all seriousness I've got a little surprise for you, once the landowners got their land confiscated, guess what they were considered after that? Pleasantry. And so you know what happened? They got land distributed to them.
So if you were faced with "execution or have slightly less land" most people are gonna choose the second option
I really like that part where the citations you gave went against your argument
"oh boy should I be executed or suffer the risk of dying from starvation, really tough one here"
Me and the citation you gave believe that m8
Maybe read before you try to provide evidence against something
No you gave the whole ass Wikipedia article as evidence
Yeah that's what they said
Most people didn't go through with that
Haha when did I say it was good
I started this whole discussion off by saying China fuckin sucked
You're moving the goalpost so quickly
Yeah cause most people didn't want to go around executing a bunch of random ass people
Imagine being anti communist and then believing every single word that comes from some communist politician
Communist party: "We're gonna kill 30 million people"
Literal cold war era propaganda against communists: "Yeah in all actuality they probably killed like 5 million"
You, the biggest of brain: "Lol what r historical records they said they were gonna kill 30 million so they definitely did so, it's not like a country emerging out of a civil war would have problems with people not properly carrying out orders or anything"
Yeah, because they did, a ton, lots of communist countries in the 1900s were notorious for being horribly inefficient when it came to orders from higher ups being carried out on a local level
One of the books that presents the 5 million number in that article is literally called "China: The Blood Century"
I'm sure that book has a very positive representation of what China was like back then
Why would a random communist politician know the precise number of people that were going to die
Yup but they still are able to make good estimates on it
How do you think he came to the 30 million number?
A single communist politician
Looked at the amount of rich people in China
Said "eh it's probably gonna be 30 million"
And that's your whole argument
Continue believing that a single communist politician guessing how many people would die before the executions took place is somehow a more accurate statement than all of the recorded deaths and people reported missing as a result of the purges
Lol I thought you were done
I think they surrendered under the threat of death
Don't know why you keep insisting that my argument is "China was good actually"
No a fuck ton of people died
I've said that multiple times
I just think it's a reasonable assumption to think 19/20 rich people would rather be forced to work than be executed
Peasants are not land owners
Do you know what a peasant is
Sorry, that one is on me, got words mixed up in my brain
For much of the poor the choice was even better, it was choosing between "Hey these guys are saying things could be better for me, who knows" or being executed
Like if you look at the history of authoritarian regimes most people are willing to comply with authoritarian laws cause they don't want to die
No, but I think they would prefer to risk it than a guaranteed bullet in the skull
If I'm a piss poor peasant and some armed soldiers come to my farm and tell me that they're gonna take my farmland but they pinkie promise to give me stuff in the long run, I'm not gonna try to fight them
I'm not saying there wasn't a lot of death, 5 million people getting executed is still super fucked, but stuff like the 100 million people being killed by communism is wildly exaggerated
Didn't say they believed it
Just said they would rather take their chances than being killed
Didn't say they were content, just that they prefer it than being killed
Can you imagine being like "nah I'd prefer to see my family get executed in front of me"
For 5 million people yeah, and yeah no the 4 pests thing was one of the most insane plans ever devised by a government you're not gonna catch me defending that
Anyways I gotta be going to sleep, good luck to you and whatever you've got going on in your life, once again for the record not a Maoist
Typically deciding to exterminate 4 species of animal from your country without doing any form of research into what the ecological impact of doing that would be is a bad idea
Aw shit I just wanted to reply to Syben, uhhh, @syben I'm not a capitalist, don't have to tell me trickle down economics don't worm
Amazing how in a short 300 year span capitalism has created such a severe climate crisis that it risks destroying much of the inhabitable planet, green really does create innovation
Lol gdp is just a stupid as fuck metric, it makes no claim on the quality of life of people in a country, just how much money is being generated in a very nebulous sense
Luxembourg is literally a tax have for rich assholes
Lol imagine your morals being based on a fucking piece of paper written 200+ years ago
I'm not even in support of most gun laws but the "muh constitution" shit is dumb as fuck
Your rights don't come from a piece of paper
If your justification for human rights is "this paper says I get them" then they're gonna be taken away
Too bad the Constitution can be changed p easily
The legal basis is that the Constitution can be changed constantly
Except it's not because the reply to anyone saying "but that's against the Constitution" is just "then we should change the Constitution"
Cuck philosophy is a gud fukkin channel
Lol why do you keep putting it into quotations
@sporus you know there's a difference between gun violence and terrorism right
No a bunch of terrorists don't use guns
No they use bombs you dipshit
Literally one of the most lethal terrorist attacks in US history
I'm really shocked that "aryan gamer nick fuentes" has unimaginably smooth brain takes
Lol economic gain and identitarianism aren't politics
"I'm hesitant to define words" is the most slippery fucking answer in existence, that's literally just "I refuse to explain things I'm saying"
"I'm not gonna be dishonest, I just refuse to explain what I mean when I use specific words"
Then explain what you mean by terrorism
Cuz he wants one to be terrorism and he doesn't want the other to be terrorism
Oh please call me autistic again
Shit how'd you know I was Benny boi
Which a lot of debates require
Why are there so many Bolivians in Virginia
Wonder what's there that may be causing that
Yeah traditional left wing analysis of class is based on ownership of capital, not the whole "lower-middle-upper class" dynamic you see espoused in many liberal countries
Capital as in one's relation to the ownership of industry, not just having things
And generally speaking Western countries but Western can get really finicky in definition depending on who you're talking to
That too, and also there's a reason left wingers use this jargon, it's not just to sound all weirdly intellectual or anything, it makes discussing issues related to class a lot easier
Just kinda glad the dude that did Nazi salutes isn't declaring himself president
I feel like the issue you're on Vulpes is the distinction between characterizing people and giving definitions of things. The guy that says socialists want everything free probably isn't able to give a concrete definition of socialism, rather he has just an abstract idea in his head of what socialists are like
I would say a good rule for "common definitions" would be the general definition that people that actually study these things use
Yeah I don't think most people have urges to murder and rape
The argument if "if everyone did it society would be trash" doesn't make sense. If everyone was a lumberjack society would crumble too. Should we ban lumberjacks?
Chile was already taken over by the USA
Did Apollo say to privatize social security
"Inshallah" -Sonic the Hedgehog
Fukk I was gonna do a socialism but then I saw "#Trump2020"
Relinquish your feet pics
@Jordan Philips Cockram If you are the only worker at the business then the business is worker owned
Mmm, love it when libertarians redefine capitalism to remove it of all historical context
"Inflation isn't capitalism"
Inflation isn't an economic policy, that's like saying a society isn't socialist if murder happens
@FirstGod You're like the stereotypical evangelical's nightmare
Sorry bucko looks like you gotta be purged
The only thing holding the left together is our hatred of liberalism, this is our sole uniting factor
Yeah most all forms of liberalism are right-leaning at least
Did you just talk about how Trump needs to defend freedom of speech while asking why he hasn't shut down a group's public activism?
Big United Group of Marxist-Leninists, Anarchists, Socialists, Libertarian Leftists, and other Anti-Capitalist Ideologies Party.
I think that's the perfect name
That would be the point of a proletarian revolution yes
Toasty definitely knows what words mean
Lol you worried about industry owners pretending to not be industry owners?
Most everywhere has a deep culture
NY Post is pretty sensationalist
Yeah everyone seems to forget that the Americas didn't have horses until colonization
Actually in many states in the US your employer can fire you for just about any reason
Freedom is when you have to sell your labor to a business to survive, and the more you have to sell your labor the more free you are
"On the Origins of War" seems like a good read for this whole convo
I also took fancy sunset photos today
Hey so apparently Legion got banned for criticizing America's age of consent laws being too low
"Stalinist Purge Party" lol we have anarchists in positions of leadership
So uh, anarchists don't tend to represent the ideas of Stalin
Ah yes, the people's $40,000 combat vehicle
I mean we're gonna remove people from our party that don't conform to the party guidelines
We have pretty lenient party lines
So long as you're anti-capitalist and not a racist you'll be good
That would be mutualism which I think (not sure) we allow
Because what they disagree on is the most fundamental part of our belief system
Our party has an internal democracy to decide leadership, not only would permitting in people that don't adhere to the most basic principles of our party badly affect our ability to conduct party business, it would also undermine our party's representation
Socialism is literally about democratizing the workplace
"Socialism is when governments are corrupt, the more corrupt they are the more socialist it is" -Marx or Stalin or something probably
Socialism has always been about worker owned means of production, which is an innately democratic goal
It has the primary aim of giving the average citizen greater control over their life
The term first world nation was literally created to describe capitalist nations allied with NATO
Further, if you want to actually look at comparable economies, Cuba has an incredibly good standard of living compared to other South American countries of similar size
Yeah seriously, Cuba is under tremendous economic sanctions yet has a super high literacy rate, really low infant mortality rate, and a decently high standard of living
Also if we talking what vehicles to use in a revolution
The average lifespan in the United States has been decreasing for 3 years straight
This is unprecedented in any first world country
*Boss takes 80% of the value I produce*
Very cool and good
*Government takes like 5% of what's left over*
How DARE you
When a business owner highers extra people, they take the majority of the surplus value that the employees produce
Oh boy I love my choice of boss that takes the majority of my value and other boss that also takes the majority of my value
Vast majority of businesses fail within the first few years of opening and I do not have the wealth to be able to take out a loan only for my business to fail cause I couldn't afford to pump out as many advertisements as my competitors
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