Wut fuck no

fuck yes

NO U

@Deleted User going on a strawman crusade

your republic can get ass blasted

This dude advocated for a invasion on Sweden because Sweden is now chucked, so someone should invade to make Sweden Sweden again

Repulicanism has very different features than democracy but there is some overlap

do you mean representative democracy?

The US is not a democracy and was not built to be one

What me and @Deleted User are saying is, why should people on welfare who had no education and can be manipulated by social media into chanting in marches be able to vote against their own self interest in an ignorant manner?

Representative republic

Is it just the weed or is this guy genuinely saying this unironically? There is no non-democratic form of republicanism

Constitutional

Their is

The US is a democracy lol

@radeon
He is saying that

Sweden is the patient zero for the Scandinavian countries, let them crash and burn as a warning.

The US is a republic

@DanielKO
Yup

I don't think you actually know the definitions of the words you are using

Although no other country in Scandinavia is going full retard like Sweden

The US by defintion is a constituional represenative republic

The US is both a democracy and a republic. These are not mutually exclusive terms.

they arent exactly the same either

Hell, Several US territories can't participate in politics

No, a republic describes a specific kind of democratic state heirarchy

Britain has a Constitutional monarchy and parliamentary (representative) democracy

>In American English, **the definition of a republic** refers specifically to a form of government in which elected individuals represent the citizen body[2] and exercise power according to the rule of law under a constitution, including separation of powers with an elected head of state, referred to as a constitutional republic[4][5][6][7] or **representative democracy**. [8]

***ELECTED*** officials

Elected by reps

so corporate state now?

Not directly elective

Hail Microsoft?

Hail GM?

The electoral college

Technically, the US could be set up so that the only voters eligible for federal elections are the mayors of towns.

not that I want that

It is still ldirectly democratic it's just that citizens votes are voting to choose the winning candidate for their state and then the states electoral vote is what counts.

If you want to go about splitting semantic hairs, please provide a clear definition of the disagreement, don't just say "you're wrong."

good thing anyone who suggests that would get lynched faster than a negro in the south

🎩
<:pepe_eyes:378719408362881024>

That's also only true of presidental elections

so does the majority of the united states decide

or is it weighted

State officials are voted for directly which in the long run is what matters more

hmmmmmmmmmm

i agree

let's bomb other countries guys

And that sucks lol

and spread "freedom"

Do you have a practical alternative to democracy?

yes, dictatorship

That isn't based on a pre-determined goal based on personal opinions*

The key difference between a democracy and a republic lies in the limits placed on government by the law, which has implications for minority rights. Both forms of government tend to use a representational system — i.e., citizens vote to elect politicians to represent their interests and form the government. In a republic, a constitution or charter of rights protects certain inalienable rights that cannot be taken away by the government, even if it has been elected by a majority of voters. In a "pure democracy," the majority is not restrained in this way and can impose its will on the minority.

Most modern nations are democratic republics with a constitution, which can be amended by a popularly elected government. This comparison therefore contrasts the form of government in most countries today with a theoretical construct of a "pure democracy", mainly to highlight the features of a republic.

@radeon Also, you realize that in a stratocracy, career politicians wouldn't really exist

If everyone were just slaves to the state, no problems would exist

apart from the fact everyone would be a slave

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic

@NightOwl That's subjective.

so?

this has some good explanations but i do not totally agree

That's a really minor advantage versus the enormous disadvantage of denying rights to millions of people

The American constitution can have its amendments changed with enough votes, no?

what is with the strawmaning? @Deleted User

in the words of stratocracy "indentured servitude isn't morally wrong"

wut

@radeon Who says they want those rights?

And which don't they have?

@Deleted User how is that a strawman?

Yea you just confirmed you don't understand what rights are

the amendments by definition are changes to the constituion

Because you still act like they are granted to you and not intrinsic

@radeon implying a neocon knows what rights are

None of us are advocating for stripping natural rights from people

You guys are arguing over semantics

No, just legal rights, which is still illiberal and moronic

@radeon How about you go educate yourself on 'citizenship' and 'citizens duties'

I'm sayig "Let people opt out"

How about we violate nobody's rights except those who have individually forfeited them?

No one's rights are being violated

citizens benefit from being a part of the state, non citizens don't. the argument here is what constitutes citizenship.

even non citizens benifit

from the relative peace of having a state system

Everyone gets RIGHTS

Only citizens get PRIVLEGES.

^

And privelges come with a cost

this is according to ideology not what is actually being practiced.

correct

except for green card holders

Why give anyone rights when you give no one rights and give the ruling class privleges?

permanent residents have to contribute or they can lose that status

I would argue that they contribute by paying taxes

Actually, this might solve the open borders issue as well

Again you are basing this on your opinion. I sound like a broken record. You have nothing concrete to show us evidence for any one of your numerous assumption-based policies. You know none of this. You don't have an argument as to why people who don't "serve" shouldn't be allowed to have their say about the state that they have to live in. You don't know that creating an aristrocratic citizen class will improve anything. This is just opinions, bad ones at that.

@radeon I said this already

pay attention

You need to understand that the point of democracy is not to serve ***you***.

Yeah, no shit

that is why we are not a democracy

The US is actually a Republic. It is governed by rule of law. The elected are bound by oath to the written governing limits (ie constitution) yet vote "together" and create laws to address concerns of the represented in a democratic way

He's asking you for evidence to back up your opinions

lol

Democracy is to serve the interests of everyone who lives under the state, even when that conflicts with your agenda.

Yes which is retarded

@radeon That's why we're not a democracy

unless it protects the minority individual rights

which is what a republic does

https://www.us-immigration.com/us-immigration-news/us-immigration/understanding-the-oath-of-allegiance/

You're doing the political theory equivilent of deleting twitter polls when the outcome runs counter to your ideology and then saying it got brigaded.

who is?

da fuq?

all interests cant be served at the same time radeon

through representation

No but that doesn't mean we must serve the interests of an entitled minority.

A voluntary minority

Anyone can be in it free of charge

who said anything about a minority?

the smallest minority is an individual

Also if this "service" is so easy to accomplish then you defeat your own stated purpose. There is literally no other way for this to end except in aristrocracy.

why do you assume it would be a minority?

Well, the citizens would be a minority

democracy only ends in socialism

wow

unless more people opt to do it

@radeon Arstocracy is the point, tbh. hear me out

I think we are about to see the first moderator to special snowflake rank switch

Dan "democracy only ends in socialism" Conway

lol you dont understand basic political science terms

you think the US is a democracy

Fuck, do we need to look up the definition of words again?

>democracy only ends in socialism
😂😂🤣🤣

Capital D democracy

The aristocracies of old were limited to social and economic status.

This 'aristocracy' is limited to those who are patriotoic and havea sense of duty.

That is when you know you gone full retard

It is impossible to have a non-democratic republic you total asshat.

Holy christ

Look at my message faggot

😂

everyone needs to calm down

Ok, again, define patriotism

@radeon
https://www.us-immigration.com/us-immigration-news/us-immigration/understanding-the-oath-of-allegiance/

Sucking the states dick @radeon

If patriotism just means loyalty to the state I'm not interested

What is or isn't patriotic is decided by whom?

A republic (from Latin res publica or "public matter") is a form of government in which power is delegated by law rather than heredity. This is in contrast to those systems of government where the ultimate power resides with the head of state, typically a monarch, theocrat or dictator, rather than a set of laws. Republican forms of government are the antipode of hereditary monarchy.

LAW

read the damn oath

what do you not understand about this

Why you think the United States is not a democracy when we hold elections which is the definition of democracy

Even if it's state level

@radeon Because we don't technically have to

Have to what, vote?

You, as a nobody, no

What does that have to do with anything

like, it's not in the constitution that drect democracy be the flavor

Who's a nobody? People you disagree with?

Non politicians

So we're back to unironically advocating for aristrocracy

Oh god what did I join

These are arguments people lost in the 19th century lmao

Did you just miss the entire post I maed JUST FOR YOU

No I saw it you're simply wrong

nice strawman bro

<:bleach:382980734035689473>

Your argument against democracy boils down to might makes right and we should let the powerful rule because they're powerful because they rule because they're powerful etc

It's circular reasoning

WHAT

@TheTelescreen how much time you got?

This entire discussion requires an understanding of natural rights, rule of law, the purpose of government, republicanism, and the duties of citizenship

@Deleted User not much for the night why

You've yet to explain why we *should* be ruled by a powerful minority

That is not what was said

@TheTelescreen just leave the server , these people are being autistic

you asked what you just joined

a republic protects any minority's rights against the majority

@Deleted User You're being a nuisance and a troll

Same @Fitzydog

It's literally what you said. You want to deny voting rights to an activist minority based on the fact that they support the values of the state which in this scenario just so happen to be *your* values.

@Deleted User I mean I knew what I was walking into I just wasn’t properly prepared

they are having a legitimate discussion @Deleted User

With an extra heavy dose of autism on top of that

That is where inalienable rights come from

@radeon Activists?

no one said this

The anti-voting advocate is now going to lecture us on inalienable rights

nothing is stopping activist from serving

I'm in tears

I'm done

voting is a privilege

what do you lose if you are a felon

Which we advocate for being earned

Guns are a privilege

Life is a privilege

Voting is a right my dude, it’s like, the social contract

I would agree

@TheTelescreen wrong

the original social contract did not think so

Everything is a privilege, there are no rights

@Deleted User wrong

Right

landowners

Nope

Okay but like, if you have enough felons to sway a vote, you have a bigger problem on your hands

@Mordred gtfo pleb

voting isnt an inherent human right

that is what happened in virginia

It is if your under a state

There are no inherent human rights

A democratic one*

Not even death

during the 2016 election

This whole chat is fucked with newbies flooding in

agree to disagree

felons may have swayed the state blue

@Fitzydog No.

Not really

Only the tele guy is a newbie

👋

The only flaw within a democracy is having ignorant people vote.

@TheTelescreen Respectfully, go re-read the last 2 hours of this chat

@TheTelescreen respectfully leave

Oof

@TheTelescreen Just, temporarily

I was getting off anyway

the only flaw of democracy is that people disagree with me 🦉

Section 4: Obligations of the United States

Clause 1: Republican government
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,

<:thisisfine:378719407981199363>

@radeon btw read

the US constituion

are you guys willing to take it into VC? my eyes are getting tired

i am in VC

@radeon are you done?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/?utm_term=.b5846bebb8c7

people have moved the goalpost of democracy

```merican form of government has been called a “democracy” by leading American statesmen and legal commentators from the Framing on. It’s true that some Framing-era commentators made arguments that distinguished “democracy” and “republic”; see, for instance, The Federalist (No. 10), though even that first draws the distinction between “pure democracy” and a “republic,” only later just saying “democracy.” But even in that era, “representative democracy” was understood as a form of democracy, alongside “pure democracy”: John Adams used the term “representative democracy” in 1794; so did Noah Webster in 1785; so did St. George Tucker in his 1803 edition of Blackstone; so did Thomas Jefferson in 1815. ```

go by the meaning at the time of the founding

Honest question: Are the states under any obligation to let the residents make a popular vote for pres?

Only under case law

weird

it would become a constitutional crisis if it happened

after all that i kinda want to go rewatch starship troopers

themovie sucks

hipster

the book

Movies for the action,
the book for the philosophy

seriously

is there a pdf?