HIGH VERBAL WITHOUT HIGH SPATIAL IS A PROBLEM HOWEVER

there's considerable overlap, Jews in particular have an issue with a big difference (relatively big)

but still, overlap

EXPLAINS JEWISH PREDOMINANCE IN TECH AND MATH

Jewish art doesn't tend to be very visual

BUT LESS SO IN LITERATURE

INTERESTING

One would think you need visuospatial for math

(NOW TRYING TO THINK OF EXAMPLES OF JEWISH ART....)

YES

BUT MAYBE NOT

but its actually verbal intelligence that deals with a lot of logical processes etc.

IF THERE IS ANOTHER WAY TO HANDLE IT

AGREED

LOGICAL CONSISTENCY

When western art became more jewish, post emancipation as the intelligentsia became jewish near the start of the 20th century and beyond

there is that big jump away from classicism, drawin gud etc.

https://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/1526-jewish-visual-intelligence/

not sure I'm down with every assertion

but the basic concept of jews in art -> less visual more "conceptual" art

is reasonably compelling

my own theory is visuospatial intelligence is an important factor in music composition

I'm sure you've had some similar ideas re: music as shape in musical space

I THINK SO

ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES IT SEEMS MORE LOGICAL/MATHEMATICAL

AND THERE IS A STRONG EMOTIONAL/REALIST COMPONENT

I DO NOT RECALL ANY STUNNING JEWISH VISUAL ART

INTERESTING

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT MODERN ART IS DEMOCRATIZED ART

it's ultimately a complex phenomenon, but just in terms of the basic substrate of "good melody"

AND THEREFORE IS INHERENTLY ANTI-TECHNICAL

SORT OF LIKE PUNK ROCK

is it democratized in actuality though?

you would think it makes art "accessible"

GOOD MELODY REQUIRES UNDERSTANDING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN NOTES PLUS THE ABILITY TO LISTEN

but ultimately it stays quite elite

IT IS DEMOCRATIZED IN AUDIENCE

no I really disagree

BUT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ARTISTIC ELITES

MEANING

modern art is for modern elites

not for ordinary people

THERE IS NOTHING THERE WHICH HOLDS BACK A PERSON FROM APPRECIATING OR PARTICIPATING

ordinary people do not appreciate it

THE HIGH VALUE OF ART GUARANTEES THESE ELITES

ORDINARY PEOPLE DO NOT APPRECIATE IT, BUT IT IS ACCESSIBLE TO THEM

HOWEVER IT IS NOT RELEVANT

THUS THEY DO NOT ATTEND IT

THIS SEEMS PARADOXICAL BUT IS NOT

I don't think it's accessible to them either (or to anyone)

it's part of the appeal to elites

that normal people "dont get" modern art

whereas a work of beauty is instantly accessible due to the force of its beauty

the lowest person can see it and gain something, even if they do not appreciate its ultimate depth

it's "concept art" that is entirely opaque, and no one really gets it, they just like the exercise of nodding and pretending they get it with a group of likeminded people

and these people, in my view, tend to be elites

there is no true postmodern kitsch either

THINK OF IT LIKE ART ROCK

maybe kitsch level art

IT SEEMS ELITE

BUT REALLY IS SIMPLISTIC

LIKE NEWER GORGUTS

SO

IT ALLOWS THE RISE OF FALSE ELITES

BASED ON POPULARITY/MONEY AND NOT QUALITY

(THESE TWO ACT AS OPPOSITES IN A SOCIAL CONTEXT)

MODERN ART IS SOCIAL ART

SOMETHING TO CHATTER ABOUT

I'll accept it's that, but it's not something for the crowd

it's deliberately not for the crowd, but may carry that conceit, in an inverted fashion

getting into modern art is becoming part of a certain club

ESSENTIALLY

LIKE POSEURS/HIPSTERS AND TREND BANDS

WE SEE THE SAME THING IN METAL

but it's not generalized to clubs in general

it's a very particular club

THREE-CHORD "ESOTERIC" WAR METAL

IS CELEBRATED AS ELITE

is it? It is celebrated by insular clubs as superior, but it isn't widely accepted as being quality or elite or superior

whereas modern art is, even if people don't appreciate it

the situation woud be similar if you had that war metal stuff

and on top of that everyone acknowledged that war metal was the bees knees

while not liking it or getting it

I don't see that as the case

THOSE WHO APPRECIATE MODERN ART

ARE A SMALL QUASI-ELITE

BASED ON THE COMMERCIAL VALUE OF THE ART

BECAUSE EVEN IF PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE IT, THEY DEFER TO IT

AND MARGINALIZE THOSE WHO DO NOT

FOR EXAMPLE US

I think that's the main difference, the deference

BUT TAKE THE BLACK METAL EXAMPLE

(DEFERENCE = THE DEMOCRATIZATION; CANNOT OPPOSE WHAT THE HERD LIKES!)

the imposition of the standard as default is what makes it different from simply clubs putting shit on pedestals

why would you say herd to a top down phenomenon?

herd effects may keep the illusion going

where normal people police themselves in keeping up the facade

but beyond that? I don't see how that works out

HERDS CREATE TOP-DOWN PHENOMENA

OUT OF THEIR PREFERENCES

WHICH ARE MOSTLY DESIGNED TO AVOID WHAT OFFENDS THEM

NORMAL PEOPLE ARE MOSTLY INERT TO ART ANYWAY

THEY LIKE SIMPLE SONGS, PRETTY PAINTINGS, NICE ARCHITECTURE

THIS IS WHY ARCHITECTURE IS QUEEN OF THE ARTS

REGULAR PEOPLE CAN APPRECIATE IT

BECAUSE ITS FUNCTION IS APPARENT

with dalits, all is about apparence

we need to acknowledge the realities of art nowadays

im not saying "modern art" mind you because modern art ceased to be contemporary

modern art is the art of the past century

nowadays, we are in the era of proper dissolution of the art as a form

the so called high art today is nothing but a class signalling tool for bourgeoisie and jews

the so called rebellious art is *passe*

as evola curiously noted in his last interview, the so called "abstract" art ceased to have the "existential' function it had for the artists back in 1920s and 1930s

we have today a completet and total artistic nihilism, where everything in art ceased to have any proper meaning

and this is a reality, not a personal estimate of the contemporary's art value

one must differentiate between the two

so since no art today has or is capable of being valuable to anybody, lacking, just as society, any reference points

there is no purpose anymore in artistic poseuring at all

one should enjoy art in the same way he enjoys women, namely, as a passing pleasure and nothing else, since simulating any other approach is just that, simulation

this is why at leasts when it comes to music, I am not a "genre" person, since it has no meaning at all

for me hence, it's either the art that can arouse in me some fond memories or produce certain pleasing experiences, or the kind of art that can be stimulating in psycho-sensory way, which is why i enjoy psy ambient music for example

donuts man

will say more when hands free

say more bands

like Liturgy?

What Evola noted is evident now as a continuum

first, breakdown existing standards, justify as breaking out of stultifying boundaries

under that cover, break out of the very goals of truth and beauty

reduce meaning to entirely subjective

so no longer is art something that evokes a certain something, which is interpreted subjectively

but the subjective interpretation becomes the whole of the art

basically, an art shaped hole

John Cage's 4:33 of silence is probably the best example of that

the "existential" "abstract" art was just the middle of the transformation

due to its bases, the further progression into meaningless nihilism was guaranteed

Hey fallot

NOVELTY ART

"ART"

I didn't like John Cage in Mortal Kombat

yeah? Which one?

I like his projectile ball thing

You can tell by his sunglasses he's a materialist

he could just be stylish

but have the buddha nature

WOULD THE BUDDHA WEAR RAY BANS?

https://youtu.be/IvJotrdKFxs

I've listened to his like 60 times

Rest of the album is okay, nothing special for the old songs

This song encapsulates the world-spirit

<:nazi_flag:286647190388998160>

Have any recommendations for bands like KPN

I never really got too into black metal

but I always liked Burzum and KPN

and Agalloch's Pale Folklore album, early Ulver as well (Skyrim tavern-core)

I mainly just listen to the main ones now. There are some decent second rate ones like Gontyna Kry

Emperor, Graveland, Beherit, Immortal, Burzum, Ildjarn/Nidhogg/Sort Vokter

Those are the main ones I listen to

There are some good Gorgoroth songs too, but the bulk of their material can easily be bypassed

I think Darkthrone is boring

First album (the death metal one) is good

FIRST TWO GORGOROTHS ARE GREAT

ALSO THE FIRST FOUR DARKTHRONES

BUT WHAT A GREAT LIST OTHERWISE: "Emperor, Graveland, Beherit, Immortal, Burzum, Ildjarn/Nidhogg/Sort Vokter"

It may be the thousand of Darkthrone ripoff acts like Judas Iscariot that make me indifferent to their music. It doesn't move me

Not like other bands do

Where I can get lost in the music

They had a voice of their own

I'll grant them that much

I mainly just listen to classical. Metal while drinking or working out

Unless it's something special

Then I'll listen to it while doing math

I think what bugs me about metal is it does not have enough of an escapist peter pan complex vibe

@spaceplacenta it's a good riff

song is kind of just there

peter pan complex?

metal is escapist almost by definition

@Deleted User 57835c2c MUCH OF IT DOES, BUT IN A TOLKIEN/LOVECRAFT/NIETZSCHE KIND OF WAY

yeah

BUT THAT WAS THE GOAL OF BURZUM AS YOU RECALL

TO STIMULATE THE FANTASY OF MORTALS

IT IS NOT ESCAPIST LIKE THE CRYSTAL METHOD

OR ENYA

all metal has this goal implicitly

it's black magic

which is the fantasy I identify with more

OR EVEN BRIAN ENO

YES

PETER PAN

HMM

PARTS OF REM ARE LIKE THAT

AND DANZIG

@Deleted User 57835c2c I don't think you appreciate metal at the perception level

I feel like the fantasy of metal is portrayed in a way that makes it so gritty it is not satisfying to me as fantasy

how to listen to music i.e.

CHUCK IT ALL AND GET LOST IN A WORLD OF MYSTERY

you can't say that to anyone without them taking offense

GRITTY

so I apologise for that

MORE PUNK

GRINDCORE ALWAYS RUINS THE ILLUSION

to some degree you have to absorb the melodic ethics of metal

WITH A FEW GREAT EXCEPTIONS

punk is unsatisfying for the same reason however they do a good job making me identify with the feeling of being a powerless individual in an awful world

TERRORIZER WRITE ABOUT ZOMBIES

AND THE MUSIC HAS THAT FEEL

METAPHORICAL

such discrete feelings

music can evoke them in someone subjectively

The tooth-and-claw aspect of nature is exemplified via metal's lore

METAL HOPES TO AWAKEN THE SENSE OF FINDING POWER IN SOMETHING ABOVE THE INDIVIDUAL

Good metal at least

IT IS ALMOST RELIGIOUS MUSIC

but it shouldn't be so narrowed down usually

yeah and that is what I am sick of dealing with @spaceplacebo

unless it is literally propaganda

tooth and claw in the pagan way

to me that is such a daily reality it's a chore to listen to

TOOTH AND CLAW IS THE OPPOSITE OF HERD CONTROL

living world tooth and claw

not rat race

WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS SOCIAL COMPETITION

RAT RACE INDEED

HURRY UP AND KISS ASS

I WOULD RECOMMEND ANCIENT OF COURSE

TROLLTAAR PERHAPS

AND THE SECOND DIMMU BORGIR

yeah I linked you that one @Deleted User 57835c2c

SORT OF LIKE CAMEL

2nd Dimmu Borgir

FANTASY DAYDREAM MUSIC

REMINDS ME OF "TO THE UNKNOWN REGION"

basically the way I feel about it is... today's world is tooth and claw in one way, metal is tooth and claw in the "let's stop pretending and just all kill each other in one last great epic hate war" sort of way, whereas I want music that makes me feel like all the dalits have been dead for so many generations we already forgot what they even were

CLASSICAL

IS YOUR ONLY OPTION

BAROQUE AND ROMANTIC

I don't want music about my race killing fallot's race so much as music written in a time when nobody even remembers fallot's race ever existed in the first place

do you really want music like that

where such a thing would be inconceivable and shocking

really, honestly

yes

or are you projecting something

no, I am dead serious

it sort of betrays the experience of music I think

to chase such things

music is music, itself an elevating experience

dreaming of a better existence is an elevating experience

if someone can make divine music, and use it to push a stupid ideology

I'll give that ideology the time of day