?

Meant for whitetrash

gotcha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPFsNtxH7FA

surprised this isn't referenced more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgk8UdV7GQ0

https://nypost.com/2018/12/29/maine-governor-writes-stolen-election-while-certifying-democrats-victory/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-lies-again-about-19000-deleted-text-messages_us_5c27d954e4b05c88b700ef50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-546aj22nOM

@CatasaurusRex Idk how i feel about the Maine thing

like more people obviously wanted the dem i guess but more people were committed to the republican

soulja boy tell em

h j[]

Make Africa White Again

Bobby shmurda

<:alexjones:517650132980989952>

hi

@Matty 😳 ummm... h-hi

hello

is this even a political server

i dunno

are you even political

@Heinrich

@Heinrich yes

it is

kinda

lol

Atom bomb baby

amazing

watching the comedy movie happy death day

just waiting for the main character to die already

sup

Sup

nm

any ancoms here?

check their <#470099397288656907>

oh only 9 people

dang

was a lot more but redid roles recently

ahh

but yeah there are more ancaps than ancom on the server

what are you?

ancom

ancaps make no sense

thats basically neo feudalism

people really believe in ancap?

yeah quite a few because they use the governance with government argument

There are lots of real ancaps

imo all anarchist ideologies make little to no sense

This

how so?

but theres an obvious difference between neo feudalism and ancaps i would say

you think humanity cant function without someone leading them?

they all rely on the governance without government argument which is flawed i would say

but almost all interaction in society occurs without "governance"

But it's all supported by governance

and by function what do you mean?

do you mean in an organized civilized setting

yeah i do

then yes i would agree it requires governance

the threat of violence is always persistent in our daily interactions

no?

what are you talking about

law

You're taking the behavior of people who live in orderly, governed societies, and saying that behavior would be replicated in societies without orderly government

yeah

laws are meaningless: good people would follow them anyway and bad people dont follow them even when theyre here

are you saying in a civilized setting there isnt a centralized power able to enforce law

lol no

bad people follow laws

like all the time

yeah, civilization can occur without a central power

some people have greater predisposition

whoah slow down

to brake the law'

Which civilization occurred without a central power

i dont know any off the top of my head but they do exist

Such as

like i said, i dont know any

Google some if you want

Then how do you know they exist

and even if they dont, it doesnt mean theyre impossible

there is no civilizations without some form of state controlled governance

Nothing is impossible

there are societies without them

Just very improbable

but not civilizations

Brb

a lot of things were very improbable before they existed. If this universe has shown us anything, is that improbable stuff happen all the time

I'm just curious about examples here

I can think of some societies off the top of my head that lacked central government

Medieval Ireland

The Icelandic Commonwealth

Some pre-Roman Germanic tribes

well the funny thing is, most attempts of creating *anything* other than our current system of state supported capitalism have been destabilized by existing superpowers, namely the USA

i dont care about whether ancom existed in history or not

people often go there in arguments and its completely pointless

if you only give value to the things that existed before in history, then you cant argue anything *but* the status quo

if we debated things on the merit of whether they existed before, literally every single advancement in civilization would not have happened

so let not

I would say precedent is a very solid determinant of if something will work or not, but fine, we can avoid that topic for now

How would you accomplish your ultimate goal

through technology

we've already seen where technology has allowed functioning decentralized organizations to thrive

think wikipedia, bittorrent, linux, ect ect

Certainly

so why couldnt it be used for governments too

where no government exists because the people self manage themselves through technology

I think that something like Bittorent which allows people to share files is different from the exercise of power

well duh, one's a file sharing site

but the fact is, it exists and thrives without leadership, without central authority, and its actually better for it

Sure

It's also used for sharing terrible content like child porn

true, but that is the price to pay

computers in general are used to share cp

should we ban computers?

thats a fallacy i often see, blaming the tool for the issue and not the core problem

As far as I'm concerned, giving up certain freedoms in exchange for other freedoms is a worthy trade

knives kill people, but they also prepare food

you assume that giving these freedoms up would solve the issue

thats what most people dont get, even if you track and watch everybody, people will still get through the cracks

no system is perfect

encryption is already out there, you can backdoor and break every social media and platform, hackers will just find others

its a game of infinite whackamole, and youre willing to sacrifice your freedoms for that loosing battle

Yes, but we still use encryption because it makes it harder for hackers

We still put locks on our doors even though it takes one rock to smash a window

We have security not because it'll stop every single criminal

It's a means of deterrence

It's the same reason we punish criminals

but does it work?

We want people to not want to commit crimes

most of the time, it doesnt

i mean, lets just look on the war on drugs for one example

"Most of the time"

The majority of people don't use illegal drugs

and do you really think thats because of its legality?

yea

i do

do *you* stay away from drugs because of its legality?

i don't but i know some people are less risky

No, I stay away from drugs because I'm deeply uncomfortable with intoxication

The point of the law isn't to catch every criminal

It's to make those who would otherwise do it consequence-free think again

and is that worth paying the price for your freedom?

and thats just when you have a system that works *right*

but no system is perfect

in fact, a lot of systems are horribly inefficient

tons of false positives

what happens to those people?

We have no freedoms only social contracts

whats a social contract?

A agreement between you and the government which grants you privileges in exchange for liberties given up

The set of reciprocal responsibilities each citizen obliges to another in a state

"I will not murder you if you don't murder me"

but i didnt enter into this agreement

And then, the "right to life" is created

You didn't voluntarily

Code do you think taxization is theft

how can it be a contract if i didnt agree?

yes ofcourse

Why are we taxed even though some people don't use the social benefits of the system

If you're using the land then you are bond by the laws and social contract of the government

muh roads

but hold on

where does the authority of the government come from?

The law

Violence

the people

the people?

really?

yes the society

lmao

how?

lol

`where does the authority of the government come from?`

they establish a state

Violence

Yes

The authority of government is derived from the fact that they maintain a functioning social order

It's the Mandate of Heaven

violence is the surpreme authority from which all other authorities derive

^

you cant maintain order without violence

you cant enforce law or right without violence

everything is based on violence. war is the ethos of the universe.

wait wait wait

first things first,

how else you gonna get things done

im just mind boggled rn

Why

i just came back but i saw the question

"you cant maintain order without violence"

wtf?

Yes

when you go to the supermarket, do you use violence to buy groceries?

do you use violence when you give someone a gift?

@Deleted User what prevents me from robbing the supermarket?

would you rob the supermarket without laws?

many would

cops are people too

not just government employees

no, would *you* rob the supermarket

The supermarket?

Let's see

depends on the supermarket

lol

probably not

i dunno

The food that arrives there travels by trade routes secured by the American military and navy

The government built the highways which carry the food to my supermarket

The supermarket stays in business because it knows that even if it is robbed it can go to the proper authorities

the problem with your argument is that you think that these things cant exist without government

I don't think that international trade routes can exist without government

just because our world functions through violence and coercion right now, doesnt mean it cant function without it

many people didnt think men could land on the moon either

again, youre equating probability with possibility

it cant

prove it?

thats like saying disprove god

but we can make statement of relative degrees of certainty

The fact hthat violence has always been a part of human civilization suggests it will probably always continue to be so

like we can show that almost every civilization had a state by which violence was used as a force to instill order

again, that doesnt cancel the posibility of self governance without a state

You can't compare "technological innovation" to "social order"

They're not the same thing

they arent

like dravidian civilizations barely had a military but they still had a force to instill order

but you cant use a longstanding trend to prove the status quo will remain that way

yeah but they suggesting it wont with little evidence is basically insane

im not saying that it wont

im saying that its possible that it might not

Of course it's possible

Who would deny that it's possible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY9VE3i-KcM

What I'm denying is that you can ever get to that point

isnt that the same thing?

the supermarket shipping thing reminded me of this video

seen it

Container ships are amazing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcom_McLean

All pay respect to the inventor of the shipping container

the only two stroke engine that deserves to exist is diesel two strokes used in ships

imo

but yeah, arguing on the basis of the status quo doesnt really make sense because things can and do change all the time

All I asked for was one example

changes occur in predictive patterns

and i dont have any