ik what you eman

<:smuglaugh:448311843086401536>

So, if someone partakes of the sacraments, and lives the holy life, while holding fast to the faith and partaking of the sacraments (like the orthodox do), if someone were to reject the papacy of Rome while holding fast to those sacraments, with bishops ordained by the Holy Spirit, they are going to hell?

If so, who said this?

The Pope?

@Iakovos if they were not raised to know any better, like Mike, then they are probably ok

Who said this?

I prefer to say probably because presumption of salvation is a sin

Then you dont call us schismatica but heretics

If the Pope said this he is saying it by his own authority and it is not of God.

Authority of the Magisterium which is what the infallibility doctrine relates to declares this and it is therefore valid and a matter of faith

And when was that written?

To reject the teaching authority of the magisterium undermines all foundations of authoritative teaching and proclamation from every ecumenical council from the early church to the present, for both east and west, because that is the dogma which declares their authority

Right, so as of *right now* prior to any decision to join any Church, then I am leaning towards the Orthodox to hold that authority.

Without it then no ecumenical council even in the east, would ever have authority

But that authority was declared dogma by the Catholic Church

First Vatican Council, 1870

Right so the Church has the authority.

And the Catholic, Universal, Orthodox Church, which is the Church that Christ established, hence Church of Christ, those bishops ordained by the Holy Spirit have the authority to teach.

This means that someone is lying.

Whether it be Orthodox or Catholic.

Peter and Paul established Rome.

Other churches were established before Constantinople too

Constantinople is an equal

Not according to councils and bishops in the early church

Let me do my studying

You've been given your study material and you chose one to study and one to ignore

Lemme tell you a story

I don't want to listen to a story because you just lied.

It'll be in PM, it's borderline dox material

I'm studying both.

I didn't lie

I said I'm studying both.

I'm not ignoring either.

However.

I've heard the Catholic Side.

let me hear the Orthodox side.

it's pretty simple.

if I'm to get a true understanding of Christianity I need to hear both sides, and pray to God that I can discern the truth, because only through God can I find the truth, not the lips of another man.

You niggahs getting too serious in here today.

Nuns have to take a celibacy vow right?

yes

That’s what I thought. Still a *sexy combat nun* though 😁

https://deplorablekel.com/2019/02/23/minneapolis-muslims-sharia-law-is-better-than-american-laws/

https://youtu.be/7jA6TCJNCik

It is said in Revelation 21:8 that many will turn to witchcraft... In prior eras people thought this was crazy, they would laugh at the idea that people would seriously resort to witchcraft by the millions.

Heresies are raising a lot esp from 2k ++

@Shadow-Dragon-777 wow. Wow. We see paganism on the rise.

Be scared and fearful of the Judgement of the One and Holy God! Repent and bow to the King of Kings for the forgiveness of your sins.

@Iakovos Paganism is on the rise in EU past decade

as is satanism too

True, Satanism has been approved by our American Government under Freedom of Religion.

1st Amendment Rights and whatnot.

I'm not even sure anymore, everywhere there is a division while we face so many external threats

It says in the Word of Revelations that the world will be thrown into total war. "Wars and rumors of wars."

Are there not many rumors of wars?

Between Turkey and Greece, protests in France, and England? Between Venezuela, Russia, and America?

Well, for Greece we are bein given every day that there will be a fight here. Half EU is burning right now through protests and jihadists

Russia is locked in a war while helping Syria

US is going for war with Iraq while you have problems with the rad leftists

and add on top of that secularism/paganism/satanism

That and for the past century there has been countless war.

Two world wars, millions upon millions of deaths

What we will witness the upcoming decade 2020-2030

will be hellish

Mike this is why we should spent our time in prayer and crying on to God to have mercy on us.

What use is your degree in the entirety of eternity?

Save some time for God, and then go back to studying.

The 1st amendment doesn’t approve of satanism you goof 🤣. Some recent judges have decided it does, and then our communist educators have perpetuated that idea.

It serves the dual purpose of keeping the president from declaring himself “pope”, and keeping freedom to be Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant (+Jews).

Purely so that the President does not usurp the divinely ordained position of Pope as written in the Bible and numerous historic documents since the early days of the Church, as Henry 8th did

Oof

Checkmate atheists

@Thornberry @Courier Six you mean the KJV that doesn't say Jesus will be born of a virgin?

Oof

Heretics btfo

Lmfao

<:TheodoreRooseveltLaugh:585130800870195200>

It does

Pls stop my sides are going into orbit

Time to have a show-down Lutherans vs Absolute theocratic Monarchy (Rome Catholicism)

I bet my whole fortune on rags on this one

I'm getting my deacon bible out

Well since we have the actual Greek translation Jesus used according to historians and scholars of all and no religion, and Mike happens to be and speak Greek, he can verify that the KJV is an incredibly false and erroneous translation

That be my bible

@the good jew get me a million loan I will pay back

50% debit @Deleted User

A small loan of a million dollars

KJV is about as crap as the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

@the good jew You get half from what I win for repayment

This is a guaranteed investment

Ikr

Of course I don't have to tell you that, you're a Jew

<:smuglaugh:448311843086401536>

Well. You catholics pray to the Virgin mary

Not to god

Since I can't win, I'll convert to Islam

We pray to God all the time

I WILL BURN YOU YOU SHIT IF YA MUSLIM

Why do Catholics pray to relics and dead people?

veneration /= praying

Pray, coming from the Latin words precare and precari, via Old French preier

I know but how does the Pope know if you are worthy of sainthood

And catholics view the Pope as the head of the church. Not god

Which i don't under

Understand*

Which means to ask, beg

Logic would have it that holy men go to heaven, and who is in heaven? God of course

And therefore those holy people are able to converse with God directly being in his presence

No. Anyone can converse with God.

So why would a catholic pray to a saint when they can just go to God?

So as surely as you ask someone to pray for you, so too we can ask someone to pray for us

Why would you not go apply for a job yourself, instead of asking a friend who works there to help you?

Sounds like you're afraid to speak to him

😮

Why would you not ask your dad for something directly, when you can go with your mom?

Sounds like someone has never been to a Catholic Church where we pray quite a lot

I know but God is all knowing and understanding. We shouldn't fear his love and mercy

Tru3

True*

I hope you never have a civil court case because most standard notices of suit include the word "pray" in which you are praying to the court

As in begging or asking in earnest

I still am confused about catholics.

Like in Revelation 8:4

Well hey. We all belive in the lord God.

Believe

We do not view the Pope as head vs God.

Protestantism -> no apostolic succession

More like a (sometimes crappy) Prime Minister vs God our King

I dont understand why we as Christians are arguing over this when the real enemy is getting ready to cut our throats ?

True

Very true

Protestantism -> not following the decrees that have been accepted by the true church

Every Catholic and Orthodox bishop enjoys a direct line of succession from the apostles

@Thornberry This is because we infected you with Greek back-stabbing we are going to kill each other until the very last moment

Muslims think that Mohammed was some amazing guy

Muslims had their false prophet something that has been warned in Christianity over 400 years ago

Meanwhile wait miracles did he preform

He was your typical thug

murderer that got exiled from his town

What*

Yes and we should be more critical of Islam not petty things like "who's the king"

He didnt raise from the dead
Jesus did

We figure that out after we destroy the horde of Islam

Jesus brought the dead back. Mohammed didnt

Mohammed converted people by the sword

Jesus did by love

Jesus didn't murder thousands of people

Quran is just satanism with extra steps

True

Guys one thing you know how Muslims have to pray towards mecca

They used to not

It was changed

If you blew it up would they spin like a broken compass on their mat?

@Deleted User I have only one question, Hadiths were written with the Quran or were modifications after?

After

They're written by his followers

Sort of a biography

How do Muslims pray towards Mecca on other planets?

I don't want to know

They have to align the angle @Shadow-Dragon-777

Lol

How do they pray in zero gravity?

How

🤔

Problem with dealing with the Muslims is that if not for the Lutherans and all the problems they caused, we would have more soldiers. We lost eight million civilians to the Lutheran genocide in the HRE, and Luther even said Catholics are worse than Muslims, meanwhile we were the only ones doing anything to stop the invasion

*Imagines Muslims in the future trying to find Mecca and pray but they keep spinning around in Zero gravity*

Guys what did the Muslim do when he couldn't drive his car?

He had to Mecca plan

<:laugh:448312947073351681>

@Deleted User Hey we did our best to hold them off, not our fault there for getting ganked raped from serbs/bulgs and venetians <:TheodoreRooseveltLaugh:585130800870195200>

No Protestant ever fought them, not a single Protestant joined the Holy League

Hey don't hate me for being lutherian

I don't

Just hate Martin Luther

Who edited the Bible

He did come up with all this while on the shitter

Too bad he didn't shit himself to death

<:TheodoreRooseveltLaugh:585130800870195200>

I think he shat his brains out

Apparently he didn't have a brain

The damn revisionism on the bible is the biggest crime

Martin Luther AKA WWI was not the first time Germany fucked things up!

they cut and took whatever they wanted

Cut out entire books

Books Jesus even read from

He chose Jews as his spiritual authority

Well what we need to do is stop in fighting amongst our selves and start looking at the real threats

Well, to do this we have to clean EU from all the mess

meaning scrapping germanic GOVT and the power they hold in EU

like we are living under HRE

Won't find any lesbian bishops in Catholic or Orthodox

after that, using guillotine on macron and his followers

"Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tells us. Was not everybody about Him saying: 'Whatever has He been doing with her?' Secondly, with Mary Magdalene, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died."

"If Moses should attempt to intimidate you with his stupid Ten Commandments, tell him right out - chase yourself to the Jews."

"If we allow them - the Commandments - any influence in our conscience, they become the cloak of all evil, heresies and blasphemies."

"Moses must ever be looked upon with suspicion, even as upon a heretic, excommunicated, damned, worse than the Pope and the devil."

"I will not have Moses with his Law, for he is the enemy of the Lord Christ."

"I have greater confidence in my wife and my pupils than I have in Christ."

"Not for a thousand years has God bestowed such great gifts on any bishop as He has on me."

"St. Augustine or St. Ambrosius cannot be compared with me."

"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture."

"St. James Epistle is really an epistle of straw, for it has nothing of the nature of the Gospel about it."

OOF

All quotes from Luther

wtf

Oh god

So thats where come the fricking heresy about Jesus with Maria

Yeah that was basically my reaction too

I was raised Protestant, may God forgive me

Jesus? Fucking someone? Oh my word what Luther thinking

Now I understand why Orthodox ex-communicate every year the protestants

"Moses must ever be looked upon with suspicion, even as upon a heretic, excommunicated, damned, worse than the Pope and the devil.

total kek

I just made a kek which makes more sense then that

Luther was not thinking. Many modern doctors believe he had severe mental illness.

It shows

certainly it shows from what you send

Man wouldn't it be cool to belong to the same church as Charlemagne

Charlemagne and Christopher Lee are hanging out together in heaven right now

Well we where under communion back then

Let's not get into that but the excommunication was lifted like 50 years ago

true

with the Greek Churches at least

The entire EO community

Slavs are still Anathematize Catholics if I'm not mistaken every Orthodox sunday

But there's questions of if the excommunication is even valid in the first place

Most likely it wasn't as both the pope

Because the papal legation only has authority from the pope that sends them

and the bishop of greeks

died

Leo had died already

So Cardinal Humbert didn't actually have the authority anymore

He'd have to go back to Rome and wait for a new pope before he could do that

And since he only did it to one person I don't think that would extend very far anyway

It was just wrong actions from both parties that led to schism from 1054 and the great schism in 1204 after the destruction of Constantinople and the 50 years rule of the latins in ERE

It just spread hostility

Despite all the negativity around Vatican II it did bring some good things for yall

Well in 2000 or 1970 Don't remember the exact date

When EO churches rejoin they maintain their traditional rites now

one of your pope asked for forgiveness from our church while he came to Greece too

Well, our church and I can tell it with 100% dose of truth would never join under a pope, not only because of that but for some decrees like filioque, they just don't accept them and they anathematize them as all orthodox

But I believe Ecumenism with Rome Catholicism could work, you guys retain everything you have, we retain everything we have and independence and we are in communion. We don't have anything to lose from that and it would be a strong alliance for the days that will come

Filioque can work but maybe not in English. It would take an ecumenical council to define it in a way that works with both

Most of the Eastern Catholic Churches used to be EO but rejoined, some relatively recently

They don't use filioque

There's three of the 23 though who have been in communion since the beginning, one of them I think used filioque for quite some time before it was even mentioned in the early middle ages

Well filioque was invented from Roman Catholicism if I'm not mistaken because it was a mean to fight Arianism that was taking foothold

Y'all would end up joining with the other Greek Catholics under the Byzantine Rite

EO didn't believe that it was necessary

Wrong, our priests have anathematized Bartholomew a lot,

Don't forget that the Byzantine Church have been hijacked from turks after the fall of the ERE. The bishop was killed and the one that succeeded him would crown all the Caliphs of Ottoman Empire

That's a major problem for us in the west

Greek Church is independent as all churches of Orthodoxy

Bishop of Constantinople don't have any authority