maced alaska is a special kind of stupid

@DA GOMMIE JOO He is an E celeb that the alt-right crowd around and throw money at.

he's also blind in one eye

Hmm?

Oh I remember that....

I remember there used to be a person in anticom who was with baked alaskkka when that happened.

What

"Because the sequel adopts the timeline of the original Blade Runner, which is set in 2019, just two years after the date of release of the sequel, the sequel is also a work of alternate history fiction that adopts the technological advancements of the first movie occurring between 1982 and 2019, while also disregarding many of the actual developments of the era, such as the ubiquity of flat-panel displays, the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the collapse of Pan Am."
soviet union in blade runner timeline??????

https://twitter.com/ScouseGirlMedia/status/985996148619010050

Are Jez

what is this

It’s also a declaration of war on a strategic ally of the western powers

Aka...

Not a smart thing to do

Happy Birthday mein Fuhrer ❤️

Fuck

Centrists are the most enlightened

Commies, nazis and anarchists are dumbest

Agreed.

If they hold dumb convictions and beliefs they're very retarded.

what a fag

Someone do a globglobgabagalab version

@yungsadgoy#6588 Edgy.

@Deleted User don’t insult your father like that

No foul language on my Christian leftist server

does anyone have a u/leftypol invite? idk if the serv still exists or not

Look at this brainwashing

Right from the start

Shut up liberal

Who is that hot tight sexy slut?

Oh its donald ❤

Hey

https://discord.me/unitedunderacommondifference

how can you be a liberal and a communist?

it's like saying john locke and thomas jefferson are ideologically identical to marx and lenin

the right needs to stop twisting the meaning of words like this.
it's really orwellian

by the way, we want the word 'libertarian' back

go back to calling yourselves liberals, honestly

You can be liberal and communist

economically

Lots are

Like many SJWs and antifa members

Communists and socialists tend to have liberal and egalitarian social ideas

But there are exceptions like strasserism which is very traditionalist and nationalistic

Ik

Define liberal lmao

You can technically be a libertarian communist

But I rarely see individualist communism. I haven’t read up on such a thing

Liberalism is a political view based on liberty and equality.

Yeah I dont know anything about individualist communism

Greetings

No u

Me?

U

@NightTerror6 libertarian communism is anarchism basically.

What is this debate about

Describe an anarchist society

Is there an italian chat channel?

There was one man. Got deleted

Oh that's bad

Ic

Well nice to be here.

Seems like even amongst left wingers economic freedom is somehow glorified, like with libertarian communism

What exactly is libertarian communism?
Libertarianism believes that government should be minimal and should hardly if ever intrude on the rights and liberties of people.
Communism believes in the government stealing from the rich, to give it to people who didn’t deserve it. All while oppressing their people to eliminate freedom of thought and innovation to ensure the longevity of the communist regime. Nearly all communist nations are extremely against libertarian ideals

So again. What exactly is “libertarian communism”?

please tell me that this is a joke

because if you legit think that communism is when the government does stuff then I'm going to have to ask you to dignitas

Give me one communist nation in the history of the world that does not require massive government to oppress and impoverish its people.

Give me one nation that calls itself communism that doesn’t have oppressive regimes and massive human rights violation.

And while you’re at it, please tell me how you plan to rob all the money and assets people have and distribute it among people who did nothing to deserve it (while killing anyone that questions or threatens the regime) without getting some form of government involved.

Ah yes. The pinnacle of high living standards. I remember my vacation to Burkina Faso. It was so lovely. The schools and healthcare are truly world class. The nations of the first world should really take notes so they can have systems that resembles them.

I said name nations. Not regions within a nation that have absolutely nothing to show for anything.... Unless you consider endless warfare a good thing to show off.

And are you really Using North Korea? Seriously? To prove that communist nations **DON’T** have oppressive regimes that impoverish their people and kill anyone that dares to speak up against them?

@killsometime#2709 I guess somebody doesn't know what shinmin is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Sankara#Health_care_and_public_works

"Sankara's first priorities after taking office were feeding, housing and giving medical care to his people"

I honestly don’t know anything about the topic of “Shinmin” so I don’t feel it is correct for me to argue for or against anything I don’t know

well it's not north korea that's for damn sure

it was an anarchist area in manchuria that lasted for a few years before getting invaded by imperial japan

and it was pretty lit

Ehh, imo, anarchism can work... but not for advanced societies

It’s for more rural communities

(Sorry for that typo there)

There is no economy system that is perfect for everyone in every corner of the world.

Capitalism doesn’t work for everyone, I will very easily concede that

"but not for advanced societies"
welcome to donbass

Wanting anarchism and having anarchism are 2 very different things.

I guess that modern ukraine isn't advanced

because they have communism in donbass

Well seeing how the economy of the Ukraine today was created mostly out of expansion of western business practices (capitalism) after the Iron Curtain fell, it would probably see a huge economic loss if it fully reverted to communism. Take for example if the state of California became a fully communist state (ignoring all the civil rights it would have to break to achieve that). The rest of the US would still be around to support the state and their massive social welfare programs. Having just one region fully communist while having the rest of the nation foot the bill, isn’t really a good way to support a theory

But let me ask you this...

Why are you in favor of stealing from people? Communism preaches taking the wealth of wealthy people and giving it to people who didn’t deserve it. For the sake of equality and fairness. That is called stealing. You will have to rob and kill to get that from people and I wanna know... why do you support that?

"why are you in favor of stealing from people?"
why are you?

Well if you’re not going to answer my question... thats fine... but please explain to me how capitalism is seen as stealing when then the basis of its working is when 2 **consenting** individuals agree on a trade of goods/services/labor.

how does the businessman make his profit?

the worker makes a value
the owner takes this value and gives back a portion as wages
the surplus that is taken is profit

blatant theft

hmm
taking a portion of someone's wealth for arbitrary reasons
what can we think of that's like that?

A businessman/woman makes a profit by selling goods and services that people want or need. Phones, hair cuts, car washes, massages. They then hire people to help them sell these things or make them. They come to an agreement. Person X hires person Y and pays them Z amount per hour or by wage. It is a consenting agreement. There is nobody forcing person person Y to work for person X or they will be executed.

Th value is not made by the owner. Value is created by the free market. If a business owner sells a banana for $100 because he thinks they are valued that much, how many bananas do you think he will sell? None. Because society does not value a banana to be worth $100. The reason Apple can sell iPhones for hundreds of dollars, is because the free markets agree that iPhones have that much value. Steve Jobs didn’t sit at his desk and say that in iPhone will cost $600 because he said so.

The profit made by the business is then owned by the business. They use that money for paying staff, buying new inventory, making products, maintaining facilities, donating to other organizations that promote their ideals, and saving some for rainy days down the line.

If the workers want more money, they can organize strikes and demand higher pay like they did in the US before. Thats is why we have trade and labor unions. There are things they can do to have higher pay that doesnt include reverting to communism. But even then, there is a limit to this. A person flipping burgers at a McDonald’s is not doing the labor that the majority of society sees as necessary for $15 per hour.

There is not a single person dictating to everyone how things are, who gets money, or how much things cost. It is determined by the free market and general public.

Now... i explained why Capitalism is not considered stealing from people. Can you please answer my question.

**Why are you in favor of stealing from people? Communism preaches taking the wealth of wealthy people and giving it to people who didn’t deserve it. For the sake of equality and fairness. That is called stealing. You will have to rob and kill to get that from people and I wanna know... why do you support that?**

Capitalism is not voluntary

Are you forced to work for someone?

Does someone point a gun at you and say “work”?

If you would be in poverty without being a wage-slave, then yes, it is involuntary

Which is the situation most people would be in under capitalism

@killsometime someone points a gun at you and says "pay the rent or get out"

@Firefly That dosen't happen though.

That is because you signed a contract **voluntarily** saying you will pay X amount per month to live there

@killsometime No, it happens without contract

Give me one person in history that allows someone to rent anywhere without a contract

Just one

Literally one

@killsometime To be fair, sometimes it is more obligitory, than it is voluntary.

@maostravelagent who are the “most people” living in poverty under capitalism in America?

@killsometime 300 million people lived in USSR rent free

@koifish Niggers.

@Firefly And the others?

Right, and we all saw the world class living standards they had in the Soviet Union...

Under communism....

@killsometime Got to love living in a glorified closet.

@Firefly you’re right. What I’d give to live rent free in the Soviet Union...

@killsometime Most people had more space per capita than in Japan, Holland or most capitalist countries

With free heating, almost free gas

almost free electricity

@Firefly But those things are usually paid for you if you are renting.

^^^^

You still agree to live and work in the Soviet Union. Not cause trouble and follow the law. You are technically still living with a contract

Just a different one

And you agree to not question the human rights violations done by the government

If you break your contract... you get shipped to Siberia

You are not forced out of the apartment if you don't pay

@killsometime If you do not agree voluntarily, then you will be put into a hole in the ground.

@Firefly Bullshit.

Because you actually don't pay, lol

You don't even need to pay

@Firefly would you rather live in the USSR or the USA

@Firefly Wow, what a conveluded way to state that.

@koifish I lived in USSR. Most people who did want it back

@Firefly And, in reality, would you really like to live in a glorified closet that has barely enough room to sleep in? While everything else is shared?

@Firefly you have any evidence to back up that most former Soviet citizens wanna go back to the good old days?

@Firefly While they may be "free", your living conditions were significantly downgraded.

What you don't pay for with money, you pay for with forced labor.

@Firefly I don't give a damn what blogpost with exaggerated polling states, the USSR was still shit.

@Firefly damn, you lived there? You must be relativley old for someone who uses discord

@maostravelagent I'm here to hold this server, I'm an admin

@Firefly Wait, I just looked at this, and it said that 56% has negative feelings over the collapse, it didn't state that they actually regretted the collapse of the union.

@Firefly have you ever considered the idea that those that miss it, probably miss the fact that the USSR influence globally and challenged the US?

Does it show they actually miss the communism or just the USSR in general

@killsometime Nobody is alive who was present during actual soviet style communism.

@killsometime or maybe they liked the idea of no homeless on street, no 75$ a month salary, working industry, free education and healthcare, absence of rent, zero unemployment

@killsometime USSR in general

@Firefly The thing is that those things were absolute bullshit claims.

@Firefly the fact that the USSR used the military to hold everyone in kind of belies your argument for how great it was

Industry was infamously sub par to the west, homeless were very much present especially in the urban area's, as well as that, education and healthcare were also disasters, being shit compared to their competetors, and rent was also present as well, even if you would like to object, as well as that unemployment was also very present as well in the soviet union, the claims that these weren't present is complete bullshit.

@koifish I disagree with a policy of movement restriction

@Firefly Thanks.

@Firefly but the USSR didn’t disagree with it or else the vast number of citizens who wanted to leave would’ve been able to

@koifish so?

@Firefly so even if you personally disagree with a movement restriction policy, no communist country in modern history has been able to exist without tyrannically ruling over its citizens. Are you telling me you’ve found the secret to utopia that all communist leaders, and even thinkers like Marx and Hegel, have missed all these years?

@koifish Right now there is no movement restriction and everybody left post-USSR countries while they been capitalist.

It damaged development of this countries greatly

@Firefly yeah because all the countries were in financial ruin after the USSR collapsed, not because of some failure of capitalism

If you don’t mind me asking, where do you live currently

@koifish Which countries been in financial ruins?

Almost all countries in the former Soviet Union after the government failed @Firefly

@koifish Ukraine been 7th European economy and where is it now?

I give you a tip. The same place Ukraine been before USSR.

@Firefly Ukraine is one example. Lithuania has risen in past decades. But there’s a lot more in these countries’ individual histories than just their time in the Soviet Union. It’s not like Ukraine has had a continuous mass exodus since the 1980’s, the exodus has ended. It started when the Soviet Union collapsed /because/ the Soviet Union collapsed

@koifish Lithuania has risen?

Everybody left Lithuania

There is no young people

And future

@koifish More people leave Ukraine now than ever before

@Firefly slightly but yeah. And seems like the USSR should’ve taken better care of its citizens if their collapse left such a mess

And more people leave now than ever because of internal extremism. It’s not been a constant stream of people leaving since the 1980’s, this uptick has been recent

Are you sure it is not because of 75$ monthly salary and 150$ monthly rent?

@Firefly what country do you live in currently? Also yeah their economy is a disaster because they haven’t recovered from the collapse of the USSR. If they never tried communism in the first place they’d have been a lot better off

They had nothing before USSR

Wastelands

They had entitlement to their own wealth and intellectual property, which is what has led the United States to become the most abundant society in world history

They had no wealth

Opportunity and incentive to create wealth, even abundant wealth, is what every communist and majority socialist society lacks

Awesome, you agreed on zero facts present to you and just pushing propaganda.

I have no time on this.

Good luck

Well you never really answered where you live now, so it’s a little hard to form any points when I can’t make them familiar to you because i have no idea what your culture is

Also it’s not propaganda to believe there’s no opportunity to create wealth in a communist society. You get more reward for becoming a doctor in a capitalist country than a communist country, and if you don’t agree with that basic truth you’re the one who doesn’t believe in facts

People should congregate on race rather than class

People can congregate on whatever they want as long as they pledge allegiance to the nation and culture they’re a citizen of in a free society

Ethno-state is the way too go

Agreed with koifish

Why kokamoe

There’s no point

Yeah, maybe by ingroup outgroup rules, people of certain races work together better

But as a country it doesn’t matter 🤔

@NightTerror6 it’s because kokamoe is an Alinskyite who believes, as alisnky wrote in his book Rules for Radicals, that balkanizing a country’s people is a way to restructure society to become more collective

Lol

That *might* be true

But I’m an individualist

@koifish That's a new fringe belief.

@NightTerror6 I’m also more of an objectivist. But I’m also very conservative so I come at this from a different perspective than most people in here

@Deleted User you’re right, but then most ideas rooted in Marx’s and Hegel’s philosophies are new fringe ideas

@koifish True.

I’m a conservative too 👌🏻

Hegel gey

wut

left conservative?

Hello

hey

@NovaCane no u

:/

Hello

What do you guys think is most important in the left/right divide?

<@291013733302534144> How so?

I mean what specific stance(s) or value(s) do you consider most polarising or important?

I think hard leftism values work and order; communism certainly does. Is the left/right divide for you freedom/order?

(Was hoping I'd at least find one leftist in a leftist group...)

But communism was left wing. I guess the terms aren't very useful

For me it's Equality/Inequality. The left is dogmatically equal, the right accepts nature's inequality

Agree, but that's what I see as the fundamental difference between left and right thinking

communisum will spread to all

I don't understand how you fuckers still believe communism actually works. You all have to be memeing.

@Deleted User How dosen't it?

How does it

Explain to me why it works

Don't try the reversal on me pal, you answer my question, and tell me how it DOSEN'T work.

Have you seen what it does to its population? With it you get cultural Marxism. Under communism you have economic equality. People will be less willing to work and less willing to go into the harder jobs. Not only that it is also unnatural man.

When did communism not lead to starvation

People sure did work under lenin, stalin, and their successors though.

Oh show me starvation in cuba, post stalin USSR, post mao china, and post ho chi minh vietnam.

You see, this is the issue with you alt-rightist trumplets who come off of /ptg/ on 4/pol/, you know jackshit about your enemy or their belief, and just dismiss them and blow them off, only strengthening your intentional ignorance.

<:caring:312066184948350976>

Is that really all you have to say?

@Deleted User You are on TWO archives that are filled with excellent literature about not just your beliefs, but your enemies beliefs as well, so get off your lazy ass and do some work.

You literally have no excuse not to be reading if you have this much free time on your hands, and you know this little.

lol

ok i was going to copy someone else