Religion can be very important to the cohesiveness of societies.

You can think of the statement how you will, but the idea of living in harmony and leading a fulfilled existence, has everything to do with spirituality.

So with no attention placed towards spirituality, society becomes diseased.

Maybe. Either Communism works, or Barbarism is the only way.

That's an incredibly limited set of options 😂

Also, not true

For instance the Balkans might still be subjugated by the Muslims if it weren't for the bonds created not just by blood, but by faith.

@Deleted User If man does not fit into Communism, then man has to be changed.

I assume you are saying that, anything beside communism is barbarism?

@Deleted User ?

@PremYattani No, I mean objectively. There are two ways this could all end.

Maybe its the other way around, and Communsim just doesn't work for Humanity?

You believe that our society devoid of communism, leads to barbarism?

@Deleted User What is so special about the current state of humanity?

"Communism" is an arbitrary concept

which apparently many people understand in countless ways

and it's implementation has always led to thousands of deaths and the dehumanization of people.

@PremYattani Communism is very specifically defined. As well as the beginning of the plan to get there.

Human Nature, the core fundamental behavior and tendencies of Human Beings that cannot be changed.

That is not to say that, the philosophy of "communism" does not have something beneficial to offer to society.

@Deleted User Human Nature can be changed, easily.

No

I think the history of Communist societies shows that not to be the case.

Human nature is absolute, but what human nature is, is a spiritual/philosophical question.

One that must be deeply contemplated

But, contemplation has been done by people before us

@PremYattani Nothing is absolute. The universe is in constant motion and change.

And it is quite apt that we might peruse the the understandings of those gyaanis of the past

the wise men

@Deleted User So humans have always existed in the same exact form and didn't evolve?

The universe has the manifest and the unmanifest. The unmanifest is primordial potential.

That is forever true

Have you ever considered the scope of that change? As in it could take hundreds of thousands of years to effect it?

the womb of manifestation

God

Truth

Many people have given many names

To the absoliute

absolute*

@PremYattani The universe is also deterministic. It has potential but its trajectory is not supernatural.

The absolute is our true nature.

Why put so much effort into changing Human nature instead of forming an ideology that can actually work with it and build off of it?

You can say everything is supernatural or nothing is supernatural

@Deleted User Because the human form can be improved.

There are already ideologies @Deleted User

Sikhism

Is mine

To what end? To not want better things? To have not a hint of ambition?

Ambition is natural

People are not ants and bees.

@Deleted User To have economic freedom and freedom from exploitation.

To oppress and do injustice to others is the evil in our society

And it is due to spiritual darkness that people live in ego, greed, anger, lust and attachment

That's what I want too, so what's so special about your version that you have to change the fundamental nature of Humanity?

@PremYattani What is the absolute nature of man, Singh?

Bhaaee, that we all share one light, and we are all equal in the eyes of the sovereign

That we ourselves are sovereign

as we each must come before god by ourselves

@Deleted User Exploitation occurs when there is control of the means of production by a few over the many. You cannot fix this without changing society's relationship to production.

Fascism = organic state = cycling shit to match the needs of the people and adheres to natural order

Fascism is more revolutionary than Marxism, and doesn't promise utopia at the end

@Deleted User thank you for Summarizing

As if you'd need utopia anyway

What is fascism?

I only know that Hitler and Mussolini were fascists

and that their regimes were not good.

>Hitler was not good

@Deleted User That's why Fascism is inferior. It is a cycle with no determine resolution, instead of an upwards spiral, towards Communism.

ethnic cleansing is not good

hot take of the century lol

Marxism doesn't either MarxISTs are who defined an end goal

Revolution implies continuity

The indian state tried to ethnically cleanse Sikhs too

They wiped out almost an entire generation

in the 80's/90's

>ethnic cleansing

A peoples' race and uniqueness is something worth preserving, and they have every right to remove those who wish to destroy it.

>implying the Germans ethnic cleansed anyone

I can't be mad, everyone's taught that bullshit at birth.

Used to pick up any Sikh off the streets, under the excuse of them being terrorist and shoot them in fake encounters, torture people and rape women.

There's no reason really to question it

However false it may be

?

What are you saying @Deleted User ?

@PremYattani I don't know what place you're talking about but it doesn't really sound like what we're talking about.

@Deleted User What are we talking about?

I'm saying there are conspiracy theories that you believe in that help cause a bias you have towards a nation of people

Or at least a previous stage of this nation

Fascism and Marxism

I thought we were just talking and this was a relevant sort of tangent

It has to do with governments

In a way, yes.

I can't recall what compelled me to say, I'm actually high af 😂

@Deleted User I said resolution, not revolution. Don't worry, I am a bit dyslexic too.

I have way too much energy for 1:44 AM

The resolution to all our ills is proper engagement with our environment, abundance yet modest living, and opportunities

Nothing is permanent, never be fooled into thinking you can create a permanent situation

Our earth is being destroyed by large corporations

and mainstream media

and banks

and such

Global Warming is BS but Globalist Corparations are still a problem regardless.

@Deleted User It's not a permanent state, it is a tipping point into a new reality, which is the platform for new sets of progress.

You know who else partook in strong environmental protection? The NSDAP

Global warming is not BS

You know who else BTFO corporations and industrialists? The NSDAP

I just took a climate and weather class this last year

@Deleted User You would know that if you even studied your enemies ideology.

Our proffessor saw fit to present us a lot of data.

The Nazi party did more for the environment than the Commie party ever did.

Global warming is definitely a thing.

I don't have many enemies

Man-made global warming is not an issue

>our professor

It is definitely and issue

an*

What field?

@Deleted User Communists are not your enemies?

It was a natural science class

They're mine (in a sense) @Deleted User

It was climate and weather

Good, interesting, learned a lot

@Deleted User Why would they be? I am not physically fighting them on the field of battle and as far as I've experienced their worst is mere loud barking.

SJWs, Globalist Jews, and third world savages are more of my enemies.

@Deleted User Well then, I would still invite you to widen your political education before you make any more mis characterisations.

Mischaracterization about what?

@Deleted User Communism is not a final absolute state.

It is presented as a means to an end

Isn't that the point?

Yes. It is the way to transform humanity into a higher stage.

What is this "higher stage"

Scroll up. It is economic emancipation and freedom from exploitation.

Define freedom

I've heard a myriad of descriptions from
>NOT CAPITALISM
to
>mutual anarchaic collectivism

I can just as easily save up money and start a business as most everyone else, that's not exploitation.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need

@Deleted User I said 'freedom from' as in, absence from oppressive force of

@Aidan Oy vey stop being such a national socialist!

Exploitation is stealing the surplus labor of working people. also lol

And who owns the means of production?

If I own a business and hire people am I exploiting them?

yes

@Deleted User The proletariat, which becomes everyone.

How so?

So do you consider any commune that has existed communist?

You are stealing their surplus labor value. That is, the worth of the labor they produce is what you would profit from, yet you require them to create wealth. You steal their labor, and contribute nothing to it

@Deleted User No. Only USSR up until Khrushchev then there was revisionism and decline.

That sounds like an unjust trade rather than thievery

Maybe Albania and a few others.

How am I stealing it? If they voluntarily agree to work for me knowing the parameters of them working for me how is that wrong?

>voluntarily

>USSR up to Kruschev
You consider THAT a dictatorship of the proletariat?

If I'm not forcing them to then its voluntary they don

It's not voluntary. They need money to survive

@Deleted User All successful Socialist states follow the Soviet model, Marxist-Leninism

have to choose me

@Deleted User Yes, the best model of it.

The question as to whether one is forced to take up a job or not is a red herring always

^^

Communists fall for it the most

And just did

They don't last though, they stagnate and collapse. @Deleted User

ill take a step back here then, let you guys handle this

@Deleted User Lasted long enough to transform USSR into a superpower, oh, and that's after crushing 80% of the Wehrmacht.

It still didn't even last into the 21st century, in the end it failed.

If you don't work you go to Gulag.

@Deleted User
>The USSR
>A successful SOCIALIST state
There were classes, there were bourgeois.
The government officials and the bureaucrats were elevated/venerated in that society, not the workers. The workers were at most nominally appreciated yet they were treated poorly especially in the beginning.

I would just say you don't eat and save the resources but whatever. @Deleted User

the ussr is not some infallible thing

@Deleted User So? This is just the beginning. The Battering Ram has just reached the gates. Communist theory is ongoing.

It has failed, Communism is in decline while Fascism is on the rise the future power is clear.

>forced labor camps
Germany is guilty of it as well. There is nothing socialist about slavery.

all of us want to take what was done and trim the fat

no the ussr did not achieve communism

A command economy will never be as innovative or effecient as a market one.

nor did it even achieve socialism probably.

@Deleted User There were no bourgeoisie, but their were bureaucrats, yes. This is necessary to structure society to defend it against imperialism. What good are your theorise if you cannot defend them?

(with my limited knowledge on the subject)

Its not about efficiency in communism

It really shouldn't be.

Then what is it about? Just being equal?

ye

The bosses lording over the industry were the bourgeois. If the workers decided to not work or to use the product themselves they would be shot. Even shitty capitalists can't do that.

a core concept of it

is equality

>defend against imperialism
Empire defending against rival empires?

But why? When everyone is the same and has the same things you just get a bleak and stagnant society.

but some of us like to think of it as equality of unique individuals

dumby

you wants some liberating shit

let me pull out the good stuff, one sec

@Deleted User The difference is that the relationship to production is the same for every one. And the Party uses objective theory to progress society. It is necessary development where the expertise is not yet there. It is always developing. The USSR constitution was changed twice in 10 years. Step by step. That is dialectics.

TO move humanity to a stage where is can have economic emancipation.

People arent the same, and an equal society wouldn't require that of anyone. Instead, people can equally pursue their skills and passions, limited not by class and income.

what

says the fascist

feels

Dammit I'm more used to talking instead of typing.

If exploitation exists anywhere within system, even the king can be subject to it. Only without exploitation in the system can you be said to be truly free from it.

But what do you really gain from that freedom? How does it make peoples' lives better?

fuck freedom

@Deleted User More progress is possible.

read up on ownness

Progress in what sense?

@Deleted User Technology, industry, production...

@Deleted User But it wasn't in the USSR, there were clear and highly seperated strata. The workers, the bosses, and the bureaucrats (CPSU)

@Aidan
Define fascism

That can all be just as easily accomplished by Fascist states.

people i dont like

jk

he said earlier that he was tho

V2s, Jets, Assault Rifles.

@Aidan Define fascism

@Deleted User Depends what you mean by strata. It was authoritarian. Whole society was mobilised towards Socialism. The economy was militarised, but the means of production was public. An army needs generals.

define communism

Me?

if you would

Communism = Classes are eliminated except for working class, property is cooperatively shared between the working class

I understand fascism as an authoritarian method of organizing society where everyone acts as a cog for the machine that is the state, for the good of the state.

If that definition is fucked up in some way go ahead and BTFO me I'm tired as shit

no classes are abolished entirely

@Deleted User Capitalism or private ownership suffocates progress. In the sense that many ideas are never allowed to be tested. There is alienation to the workers.

>Fascism
>authoritarianism

Fascism is an Authoritarian state that uses its authority to serve the interest of its people regardless of class.

What if I told you fascism isn't inherently authoritarian

private property as we understand it would be abolished as it would not be needed, though this is distinct from person property.

wooooooah

what

it entirely is

Sorry, i know it isnt necessarily authoritarian in theory.

What is so inherintly bad about private property?

It has historically been, but that doesnt mean it has to be.

it's a state it has to be authoritarian dinguses.

@Deleted User It causes exploitation. Please read Marx and Engels.

@Deleted User You're asking us to do your book report for you.

private property is not my property

but property given to me by the grace of law

a spook

How does owning land cause exploitation?

bruh. read the manifesto

progress and poverty rails on owning land and not developing it as exploitive very well if i'm correct

its not even that long

@dindins
@Aidan
Fascism has no specific political nor economic system tied to it at its core, it uses them as tools and disposes of them just as easily as adapts

fascism

If you have then why don't you just explain it to me? How does me owning 20 acres of land cause exploitation?

Authoritarianism has its use as much as freedom

as mussolini undorstood it was basically corpratism

i should was is corpratism

Corporatism was used to mean guilds by Mussolini

He wanted a guild system