if we turn a Princess into energy, we can extract more than a rock

brb

@Vic Chong Measuring relative energy is a kind of meaning which you constructed. But objectively, a thing is not more or less meaningful according to its 'energy' or anything else.

Oh shoot

we have a philoshiper here

err....

nvm

go back to doing whatever philoshiphers do......

But I mean, Ghazali circumvents this whole problem with stating that God is immanent and therefore every event is close to having Absolute meaning. It is the opposite of nihilism, and a real shock to my sensibilities. It was only a few days ago which I realised that only an Absolute meaning can safe a pure rational, material outlook. Now this is a huge conceptual boost.

my rational mind tells me to question everything, even myself and the reality that it's been put on, that's where we are different

but don't get me wrong, i am fully functional and this doesn't drag me down in any way

ayo we wuz nazbol an sheeeeit

i have a job and mostly a happy life

which takes me back on my posting regarding nihilism, what do you think of this @Deleted User

I'm not sure your point.

Nihilism is neutralising, but it still neutralises and causes a loss of preconceptions you have.

It is an interesting characterisation 'emotional weakness' to mourn to loss of physiological scaffolds. Every human being has an incomplete view and prone to loss of worldview. This process is not always healthy, but some brave souls attempt it anyway, under the impulse of reason.

Maybe this is a step to far, but if you have a drive to get to the bottom, or the 'final stop' as you say, then this is the consequence. Sure, some people may be prone to pessimism, some optimism, but the process itself leads to neither, but are a preference and a reflection of secondary personal traits.

no, it's not the same as being an atheist and saying "there is no god, full stop." it is only the skepticism it gives to you, the insight of knowing whatever meaning you can reach might be pointless too, but it still doesn't stop you from looking for a meaning

i mean, this is not really what's in that text, yeah, i can see why you have reached that

Have I misunderstood something?

There is difference between 'might be meaningless' and 'meaning is objectively null, we must construct our own'.

no, what i am saying is the text was only about the pessimism/optimism side of the spectrum

and we are talking about something else now

Okay.

I think reading Max Stirner pushed me into the latter.

"'meaning is objectively null, we must construct our own" is what absurdism stands for

So have I just been using the wrong term?

and yeah, i can actually understand how stirner can make your pursuit for meaning centralized on your own consciousness

which is not wrong or anything at all

like anything in philosophy

different ideas, different views

I followed this view in good faith, building on philosophy and following its conclusions.

i totally get your view and sympathise

that's a side i've thought being on too

The interesting part about '...we must build our own', is that is essentially returns you to your starting point, only now you are conscious of the implications of meaning.

And so to constantly try to reinforce this cycle is kind of redundant. This opens up the possibility of God, but maybe not in the same authentic way, at least not in the materialist framework, which post-Hegelian thought still holds onto.

I mean, it is internally consistent, but in a way I now feel dominated by it.

Having walked through the gates of meaning, I am now free to assert a much more rigorous faith than I would have ever been previous able to, totally unchained by reason and materialist thought. Which is an interesting paradox.

by eliminating the other possible 'meanings'?

Yes, exactly.

now what i need to state here is, this is where I reach too, a god, maybe not in the same concept with yours, mine is mostly a pantheist/taoist belief with centralizing on every**thing**, this is what my logic and pure reason reaches with all the accumulated knowledge from thousands of pages of different dialects and schools of thought, but i just acknowledge this is just the same with other 'meanings' too, might just be as pointless and might not be the truth at all, because at the end of the day, i can never be truly sure of **anything** existing, including the existence of myself

A supreme meaning is Absolute and singular.

just to give you a better view of where I stand

Thanks, very interesting.

*Indeed, the philosophers have no other proof than the observation of the occurrence of the burning, when there is contact with fire, but observation proves only a simultaneity, not a causation, and, in reality, there is no other cause but God.*
This blows my mind.

yes, that is where i reach and what basically structures my belief of a pantheist concept of **god**, i prefer to call it the **chaos**

Why would you settle for any meaning less than the Absolute?

no, what i reach is the absolute, if we are talking about the hegelian concept of absolute spirit

What I mean is why would you settle for pantheism over monotheism, when one is more ultimate than the other?

however this doesn't make my *meaning* any *less* than any others, this is only where i stand right now and it might change in time, i can just reach another station during one of my meditations because there is no end to this pursuit of meaning, so where i stand right now is just valuable as the meaning of a guy who believes the meaning of life is chocolate

no, pantheism is grander than monotheism in my opinion

Wew. Please elaborate.

"And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and **We are closer to him than [his] jugular vein**" (Qaf [50:16])

Isn't pantheism just materialism + divinity?

That quote implies what Ghazali said, that God is between events.

what do you mean by that? my view is realizing the reality we're being on right now is just a small fragrence of *actual* reality like a piece of sand in a beach or a drop of water in an ocean, and the *chaos* covers everything, it **is** everything

That's high level theology. I can't penetrate it easily.

simple really

what's on your desk right now, besides from your pc

Drink. Papers.

that drink is a piece of god

papers are

air is

But that's not adding anything to mundane observations. You're just calling everything god.

the atoms, the molecules, the matter and antimatter, all of those are god

Like I said, it's regular materialism just given divine significance.

the materialistic side of it is only from what our rational mind can see, which is this world

What is the other side?

there is more to that, there is more than what we perceive

i genuienly forgot the word which stands for "not-physical"

and i am still thinking

Supernatural?

alcohol is wearing off

no, xxx-physics

Haha, what is that? Also what are you drinking?

whiskey

XXX-Physics. Hot nerdy girls.

okay, there is physics and there is something that's the opposite

hahahahah

This is Deepak Choprah shit.

god i think one day i'll just forget how to talk at all

no it is really common

oh god

I woke up this morning thinking, 'what is all this fog in my head...it's going to get worse isn't it..."

i'm even coming up with extraterrestrial

but not the word

i have days like that

I am genuinely dim witted.

if the fog still stands after the breakfast and a coffee, i try to manipulate my mind

that's what a third party observer of this conversation would say, about both of us

"fucking retards lel"

Anyway, tell me more about pantheism. I don't quite understand. Do I have to read Spinoza?

For me the alternative to Absurdism was really clear and obvious. Now I am curious how you go to your conclusion.

spinoza's religious doctrines are more about a criticism on descartes' views, but can give you an insight

i suppose you're already familiar with hegelian absolute

Familiar, by no means a scholar.

hegel emphasises on the connection between *things*, which will be important from where you stand

the connection that initially arises due to things *existing*

Yep, good so far.

and i suppose all the far eastern teachings that will tell you to be a good person and kill your ego won't do any good? that you would rather skip all that shit?

i mean it as it's mostly the far asian philosophy, they actually talk a little about the truth about the matter

Good question. I think the 'spiritual life' is deficient. It can be psychological tool to end suffering in one person, yourself, and presumably try to reduce it in others. However, the whole task has not been very successful. The inward looking Tibet, for example, have been pretty BTFO by atheist Chinese. I am suspect of all mystical claims, it's a kind of reverse-materialism. Now I see this might be a false dichotomy.

Then again, meaning precedes all practical considerations, or at least all consideration are structured around meaningfulness. Following teachings depend on their theological proximity to what you consider to be God.

For me, it seems obvious that the highest meaning is transcendent, and both immanent.

Since an object and its meaning are not inherent.

from where do you structure your moral values? not that strictly as your moral 'codes' but what makes you say that "killing a person is bad"? kant, ten commandments, law?

my brain is starting to decline me, i hope that sentence is understandable to you

haha

It is. Well, once you recognise God, then religion must follow since activity follows meaning. Maybe God doesn't need you to do anything. I'm still unclear of this point, only recently coming from an amoral viewpoint.

so your reasoning that you don't need any reasoning behind the morals because god is obviously smarter/wiser than you to know what's right and what's wrong and that makes you believe in them?

It's pretty organic, I would think. Indeed, my reasoning is obsolete.

i mean, considering you are applying rational thinking to morals too, like everything

you might as well not, i am no one to judge that

I guess my idea is amorality + God's commands.

And different groups compete to prove what those are.

amorality is the stance everyone initially has, only the values shape the moral structure of people, think of a tribe in amazons that are sacrificing and cannibalizing people for their god and compare it to your or any westerner's morals

with "killing a person is bad"

Pretty much. However that mote of worship no longer exists.

this is what makes kant wrong

it might not exist

i can just build a religion like that

that will be my morals because i believe in it

that a bloodthirsty god needs some virgin sacrifice

I agree. It's not the 'badness' that makes it wrong. It's wrong before it competes with other ideas, ones that you might have.

that's only an example, it can be expanded really, think of stealing someone's property in an ancom community or whatever

I think we are on the same page here.

and i really forgot what we were on before

haha

Rational thinking is a kind of secular morality.

💥

you think?

it might just make you reach god

and go full zealot

because that would be the absolute truth after that point

hahaha

"honor" is really funny, along with "humility" and bunch of others

not that they are wrong, in the way people think of them

these words are the ones that could make me go and crusade

O' day, arise!
shine your light , the atoms are dancing

Thanks to Him the universe is dancing,
overcome with ecstasy , free from body and mind

I'll whisper in your ear where their dance is leading them.

All the atoms in the air and in the desert are dancing ,
puzzled and drunken to the ray of light,
they seem insane.

All these atoms are not so different than we are,
happy or miserable,
perplexed and bewildered

We are all beings in the ray of LIGHT from The Beloved,
nothing can be said.

i mean, from an objective standpoint, bullshit

hahaha

Martyrdom is the purest devotion.

All good religions must give martyrs a free ticket to heaven.

Buddhism doesn't/

is it? what if you are wrong and there is no god waiting to embrace you on the other side?

It doesn't matter whatsoever. You already realised in yourself the internalisation of the ultimate meaning.

and you'll die happily with believing in it?

Could you imagine the euphoria that martyrs feel? But you have to **fully** know it.

isn't the rational mind and intelligence and wit is a curse?

The mind is dead. What have your done to overcome it?

If the crisis of existence is to find meaning. Then martyrs have the cheat codes.

it is not dead as long as i'm able to type in here, at least in this reality

i agree

do you sometimes wish still being a devoted christian and not thinking about it?

All the time.

Jealous even.

there was a time around 10-11 years ago

that i decided something was wrong and i decided to analyze the social interactions

and imitated the chads, eventually became one

if you are familiar with the concept of chads, from the internet meme dialect

I am.

and for around 2-3 years, i was fully a chad

i haven't even thought about the past and labeled my younger self as a "loser"

then one day it came to me, like a lightning striked upon my brain, out of nowhere

i asked what the fuck am i doing

and what is the point

and why

three questions

RIP penis.

hahaha

indeed

i still miss those times

i wish it never had this awakening or whatever, more like someone casted a curse on me

<:feelsgoodman:252981362523504640>

But like I said earlier, it kind of feels like I (you?) have passed through some kind of gate of meaning, now you are free to realise a higher level of meaning than before. It is like a system upgrade.

correct, now i loathe and crush chads in my daily life, missing those times is more like romanticising the past

Good for you, if that is important to you.

maybe, it's in my "having fun" quota

nihilism actually made me more free, you're right on that

and i believe pure reason eventually reaches nihilism no matter where it comes from, it's a stop if not the final stop

that's where peterson is wrong

the (((((((philosopher))))))))))) peterson

who is actually nietzsche, kant and jung combined

I hate Peterson.

Don't get me started.

god

%75 of my time in discord is actually telling people why peterson is wrong and is a fucking charlatan that's on a quest of ripping off alt-rights and christans sweet money

he's really smart tho, i will give him that, full respect

Just his fucking voice man.

Makes me want to get violent.

That's another thing. People are so boring.

what's your take on his ((unique)) philosophy?

It's like, the archetypes, man. Dude lmao just follow the symbolism.

😂

metaphysics of pepe the frog? the "kek"?

how the movie "frozen" is actually made by aliens to rewire our minds?

why are you mocking his philosophy? he is a prophet?

Stop.

I can't take it.

It's called lazy intellectualism. People believe it because there is no cost involved in accepting symbols. It's just happy thoughts and 'woah I'm enlightened and shit'. It's 100% a marketing gig, borderline cult.

Like my nigger Deepak.

Man, I can't believe I used to browse /pol/ and think I was learning something. But back then it wasn't as bad. Or so I tell myself.

the paranthesis guy? do you remember him?

Of course.

Everyone needs a heathen to fight against.

paranthesis guy was just a sweet summary of pol who decided to take it further with some actual creditiable sources and mixed everything afterwards

that's why i loved him

He genuinely had a mental illness.

maybe he is the only normal one in this world

Maybe he martyred himself for Baal.

Sending prayers into the underworld for you. 🙏

i think that would happen only if he found his "true" self to be the negative side

what was the equiation*

He had so much energy though.

eve=jesus=christianity=baal?

or was that baphometh

Unfortunately too much repetition. It annoyed me. I started being mean to him.

hahaha

he can't get to the point, he can but with pushing so much irrelevant shit afterwards that you don't see what the point is on

Also, compassion can be over rated. I went through a vegan stage and once I realised how much suffering in the world there was, it was unbearable. I had to change my understanding of the way to world it. It is a horrific place. But I think I have come to terms with it.

you reached to the suffering?

what does this sentence mean to you

True empathy and consciousness of the life process.

For all creatures.

whopps, someone deleted my posts

you were able to empasize with every creature, yes, including animals

Animal rights people are still being anthropocentric. Humans do not have a monopoly on causing suffering. Life itself, from birth is 99%+ suffering and death.

and yet, you reached there without realizing the *wholeness* of a pantheistic belief

Here we go.

i actually wonder how you were able to do that

meditation?

My cat died a violent death.

oh yes, i remember reading that

It followed, rationally for there.

Existence is a meat grinder.

do you think the human progress is natural, as in yes, we are a goddamn species that's responsible for causing so much pain and destruction over the nature and other living things, but this itself as a whole is natural?

Haha, of course.

You would struggle to posit otherwise.

So then you are left with an uncomfortable notion.

Humans are like a cancer right now.

Well...

That's an emotive statement.

I mean to say that people try to say human progress is something other than natural it order to leave open the believe that it can be corrected or 'fixed'.

is life suffering or an embodied and structured form of life, say "mr. life" is suffering?

i mean