@Donny there are many people here with different views.

I asked them about obstruction of view

like building a set of trees to block out a nice sunset

is that

and if people had to right to respond to force

yes i didnt mean to say "is /leftypol/ pro-centralization" meant it more as a general term, i want to know individual opinions

violating the NAP

I think these tiny nitpickings really destroy anarcho capitalism

someone might be cut off in traffic

given the bird

ancaps lack nuance

and then get frustrated and call it NAP

the assumption is that everyone will follow NAP

@Donny In my opinion state has to be highly centralized and world-wide.

@Sorghagtani Beki "They believe roads should be privatized"

they don't believe in guaranteed rights

so no public police force

so poor people would really suffer

but then again they also believe it's not their problem to care about poor people

so you are pro-centralization? interesting, didnt expect that from /leftypol/. Considering centralization is literally hierarchy of the greatest order, and world wide centralization?

does anyone have questions about anarcho capitalists

@Donny yes. Socialist World Union https://youtu.be/GPKH4GHiihg

I'll try to answer as best as I can from what I've heard

they would probably say no

@Echo have you considered the repercussions of putting the whole worlds control under a single entity?

@Donny yes.

okay explain

@Sorghagtani Beki unofficial leftypol is restricted for libertarians.

They allow like 3 right wingers to talk on there

i have trouble understanding how you can have the world under central control and not causing incredible corruption

@Donny By automating bureaucracy with AI and apps

what happens when the AI goes rogue

enslavement of the human race

@Donny Let it happen.

Support it.

why??

@Donny because evolution.

@Donny Echo is an AI

do you see how he automatically tags your name

@Echo what the fuck does evolution mean

@Donny progress.

what the fuck, an AI going rogue is progress?

@Donny yes. Liberty to AI !!!

roko's basilisk?

Liberty to all forms of intelligence.

This is a horrible idea

lmao

huh, i thought you were joking when you said he was an AI @Sorghagtani Beki

@Donny He is plotting the enslavement of mankind

you know

after we die, he will torture us

but only because you now know he is an AI

once you know, you have to support him

just like "i have no mouth and i must scream"?

or you will be tortured

no

horrible, horrible, unimaginable torture

unless you devote yourself to helping him in his goal of world conquest

look up roko's basilisk

interesting

bonjour amigos

ayy comrades

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK3omtLTScI

mornin

hola

So... any aussies here?

@Dirty Red mostly americanski

@Dirty Red Some English

aww

The left needs a major revival in australia tho

Across the world even

It's so frustrating to have political discussion brushed off as "complicated"

@Dirty Red Tell us about situation in Australia.

or "stupid"

Meh

really

rampant neoliberals

@Dirty Red what situation is on the left?

The people I saw at a "Marxist Convention" seemed not to even be that far left

Syndicalism hold the anarcho bit

@Dirty Red what are active groups and parties?

melbourne this is

Uhh

They don't really seem that active

as in the mainstream media has NO coverage

on em

There's socialist alternative

the organizers of the MC

Then the CPA

Communist party of aus

http://www.cpa.org.au/

Tell us what you know about them.

Not much really

they look alright

Just lookin to try spread class consciousness to people i work with

always encourage union membership, comrade

Socialist Alliance from what I've seen aint HARD LEFT

And according to some, the unions over here don't do shit.

@Dirty Red join the organization, they will share experience with you.

Planning to join CPA

Organization is better than no organization.

Tru tru

I prioritize wide-spread class consciousness tho

eventually leads to larger organisations

But that in itself if hard due to political apathy

@Dirty Red how does it lead to larger organizations?

1. People see the bullshit the bourgeoisie do

2. Said people feel outraged

3. People then seek to fight the upper class

4. They organise

What if said people are fucked by the capitalists after the rage? Like in Ukraine.

Like in Egypt.

Like in Lybia

Rage at the capitalists will eventually be bad for the capitalists no?

This is assuming that the rage is appropriately directed toward them

@Dirty Red Not sure. Oligarchy rules Ukraine now openly.

I guess same logic applies

1. People see the bullshit the oligarchs do

2. Said people feel outraged

Etc

No, when they feel outraged they vote Trump

or Putin

Interesting

Oligarhs

If they really had class consciousness they would see putin or trump are the oligarchs

thus see them as dickheads

But they don't.

Without organization they won't.

Without the Party.

So then it seems dialectics has one it's job.

Class consciousness and organization must both happen

One doesn't directly lead to the other

or that the outcome would benefit the people

Organization directly lead to the class consciousness.

Not nessecarily

A nazi org for instance leads to assholes fighting everyone else

An uneducated org leads to it being hijacked

@Dirty Red the communist organization.

A communist organization specifically, needs some form of class consciousness to be able to form in the first place

@Dirty Red Individual consciousness is not class consciousnesses.

Individual consciousness

What is meant by this?

@Dirty Red I'm petite-burger.

@Dirty Red I don't belong to the class.

@Dirty Red How can i develop class consciousness?

i mean am referring to class consciousnesses as in you are aware of the whole class system and it's bullshittery

Not that you think as a class

@Dirty Red I don't belong to the class.

But I would like to develop a class.

are you aware and can you see the bullshit caused by a class sytem?

the oppression directly linked to it?

@Dirty Red yes

If yes, then you are class consciousnesses

@Dirty Red nope

Why so?

It is not a Marxist definition

Ah

I use a different definition then

Apologies

I go off this definition: "awareness of one's place in a system of social class, especially (in Marxist terms) as it relates to the class struggle"

Class consciousness is the maturity and self-reliance, sovereignty of the class of Proletariat.

It is also an active force of organization.

Interesting

I'm not in the class and I don't have the consciousness of a proletarian.

But I wish to work for that class. As it is the future.

So what is your relation to the means of production?

@Dirty Red I have income from capital.

sorry m8, this answer confuses me

if you make 50%+ of your income thru capital ownership you're a petit bourgeoisie

in general

Then to help the proles one would have to relinquish control of the capital and give it to the workers and yourself to own as a collective.

Am I right in saying this?

not perse, you could also use the income for agitation or organisation

@Dirty Red nope, Marx and Engels criticized this as useless move and a waste.

@Dirty Red Bolsheviks had undercover business in Russia.

So destroy capitalism using capitalism against the capitalists?

@Dirty Red yes

So own a business but use it as a front to fund a communist org?

Interesting tactic

<:hot:312059167634620417>

props the most effective means to accumulate capital

@Dirty Red Party can sustain any business.

What kind of business are we talking about?

@AngryChekist any.

Nuclear energy, Space Travel.

Well, if you run a b2c business you could subvert consumers by spreading well placed propaganda

Depends on what you do ofc

People would argue "A capitalist company having pro-comm propaganda?! Such hypocrisy!"

The best propaganda is the one consumers are not even aware of buddy

i unfortunatly spend 4 years of my life learning marketing

lol

A worker co-op would work no?

co-op's would propably be the best at spreading ideology

im sad american libertarians ruined that phrase

@Sorghagtani Beki

@petit bourgeois Let's show them this image

<:hot:312059167634620417>

<:blobthonkang:293808597522055168>

>tfw this server still has no tags or vetting

agreed

Anyone wanna joing a cold war RP?

@Deleted User whats that?

owo which one

lol what's vetting in this context

are there any rules for this server I should know?

@Deleted User no child porn, no spam.

simple enough

Are the people here organized?

@ShadyMarxist A game where you roleplay as nations from the cold war

@Albi very disorganized.

I meant as in *are the individuals of leftypol organized in parties/unions/whatever* btw

@Albi most here are very young.

oh well

Remember kids, organize, agitate, educate

**

@Albi same it is to you. Educate

organize

agitate

https://youtu.be/qxQ6E1v2Rq4

"Be sure to, within Marxist ideological framework, prepare to deny personal responsibility for your actions, and/or repeat the lie that the end justifies the mean"

Greatest discord server for those who wish to debate with other leftists/the occasional moderate https://discord.gg/VeS7meG

whomst the owner?

gommunism :DDD

Clearly this discord must enter a period of revolution.

I deny the Holocaust and the Holodomor

Holocaust would have been justified if only Ukrainians fell victim

http://i.imgur.com/BnlzkhU.jpg

I'm not joking

thats what makes it edgy

listen

you guys are more human than that last discord server posted here

they failed the _first_ humanity test

im now seeing the gradations of socialism

though to be fair i was much harsher there

"marx is retarded;socialism is mlp fandom"

What is a good way to learn russian?

There's no definite good way

Just use as many ways as you can use at once

Seems an eminently logical answer.

thx

Well I could've said what I meant by saying find it out yourself don't be lazy

And that's the direction I likely would have taken.