>you don't need food to survive

my sides

that was an error

let me edit it

I tried to say you need it to survive

it is not a commoditie

@Horse Shmeat So if anything that is used to make money and is not owned by the state is private property, then woulden't you have to shut down all farms and factories?

a teddy bear is a commoditie

do you need it to survive

@Deleted User because the workers would take control

and own it together

the community would own the factories and buildings

Then they would have to have someone who would recieve the vouchers and give them to the workers.

Who would be producing and distrubiting them if there is no central power to do so?

the people who live in the community

How would they be able to produce them items that they need, to be able to build the vehicles, trade routes, and factories along with paper to do so, while also being able to pay workers?

Wait a second

No one country can do that unless it is a super power.

by the workers making items

Or the world is completely stateless.

You still need to tell me if the man with no vouchers gets the food he needs

They would have to trade.

He does Johannes

he needs food to live

so he gets what he needs to live

commodities are things you don't need to survive

I said this 100 times already

Commodities are anything you can trade

Including water and food

What are you fuckers arguing about?

Vouchers then only count for luxury goods

@Stoichia21 Anarchist shit.

Which makes sense

mhm

@Stoichia21 You don't need food to survive :^)

@Stoichia21 They are saying labor vouchers are money

They are.

You do need food to survive

Labor vouchers = fiat currency

food is not a commoditie

Commodities - a raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold, such as copper or coffee.
synonyms: item, material, product, article, object; More
import, export
"the prices of basic commodities have risen again"
a useful or valuable thing, such as water or time.

>BUT CURRENCY IS USED FOR PROFIT DATS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Food and water are commodities but they are necessities

They are *survival* necessities

and everyone's needs are met

You don't buy food because you need it so you will get it

because people need things to survivie

what commie guy said

@Stoichia21 How? By producing it or scouraging for it?

by workers producing food

yeah

If everyone is special noone is

"muh special snowflake"

What

who cares about who is special

that is the most irrelevant thing here

I was talking about the title of workers

non specialty is the point

If everyone is a worker then it makes sense to call them the people because the work is already implied

Just semantics stuff

nobody is prioritized over another

Flair

@Horse Shmeat But how are you able to tell whether or not a person is in need of food, and how will you be able to get it to him? What if he lives in a very rural area where there are few roads.

you tell they need food cause they boutta fucking die

so you're saying food isn't produced in that area?

wtf

If a man works twice as hard as another man working in the same factory does the harder worker make more luxury vouchers?

no

it's based on hours

So fixed wage?

No merit?

the more able bodied produce for those who can't produce as much

@Stoichia21 Have you tried producing food in a desert, or in a tundra? Not very easy.

And the people who produce more are not recognized for their service?

Yeah

they do good work

but they are still equal

That's pretty fucked

actually as far as I'm aware the amount of labour vouchers you get is based on how much you work and how hard you work

What's stopping the able from slacking then

saying good job doesn't make you an asshole

I never heard anyone say you get it based on hours

uhhh

starving

And getting the same amount of vouchers doing barely anything

Oh okay so disabled people starve?

@Stoichia21 people debate it differently

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Umm, disabled people have their needs to survive met

and don't die

@Stoichia21 Oy vey stop trying to model a meritocracy!

if he wants a teddy bear he uses vouchers

Equal wages!

Slave away for me

everybody works

@Horse Shmeat >Yhea, you may be producing more than any other farm in the commune, producing more than triple the other ones, but because the other ones are struggling with pests and disease, they are still going to be treated the same way as you.

who are you slaving for

You just said the slacker starves

Or were you replying to Danger

it's hard to say how many labour vouchers someone gets because there are many factors that come into the decision

no, I said the slacker has his fucking needs met

how many god damn times do I have to say it

So the slacker can earn as many luxury vouchers as the hard worker?

no

if you don't work you get nothing

In Harry's model

sry no

if you don't work you get basic needs

yeah

@Stoichia21 That is the main issue when it comes to debating with subjects like this, there are so many factors that you cannot even come to a reasonable conclusion.

if you work you get more

What commie guy is saying

So what's encouraging anyone to work?

NOT STARVING

If nobody works

no food

BUT YOU GET FOOD REGARDLESS

NOT IF NOBODY IS MAKING SHIT

well tbf automation comes in a lot

WELFARE STATE

You need factories to run farms?

Fuck no

>automation

So your system is a highly futuristic projection?

it accounts for the future

because automation is inevitable

@Horse Shmeat That is how it would collapse in the end, because nobody would work if they got food regardless if they even did anything, resulting in mass starvations, and a lack of resources.

no it's just making people work less to focus on other stuff like leisure, culture or science

What if humanity had to go Dune because of AI or something? What would you do without machines?

Automation is bote inevitable and needed

both sry

So the machines do everything and you sit on your ass. Sounds like the end of humanity to me honestly

Nobody gets anything if people don't work

Johannes it would happen in capitalist society too

Of course

But, if you get food regardless of anything, what stops you from just putting your robots on auto work mode and getting free food and water?

so then why are you blaming communism

Because both systems want it

It's not that nobody does anything. People need to make the machines in the first place.

No we're talking about the future

Not everything can be automated anyways

When machines can make themselves

And maintain themselves

Gay space luxury communism

@Stoichia21 >Not everything can be automated

That is doubtful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TZ5FD6i-jI

@Horse Shmeat If everything is going to be automated, then what happens when humans become over populated, and cannot work because of automation?

then they chill out and focus on art and hobbies

and humans just find new space

>New space

overpopulation would happen in capitalist society too

And what happens if a technological singularity occurs and the robots begin harming humans?

Who said capitalism isn't also bad?

We're not even talking about economics anymore

now we're talking about robot fighting

jesus christ

Dune man Dune

if the robots harm humans you destroy the fucking robots

Robots revolt and mankind BTFOs them

It is very possible that it would occur if you began automating everything.

simple shit

And bans machines

ok

Dune's a good book

then you destroy the machines

THE SPICE MUST FLOW

done

there's always a stop button boi

what is the problem

@Horse Shmeat If you have the robots controlling everything, then what is stopping them from scorching the earth and starving everybody to death?

"BUT WUT HABINS IF YOU HAF TO FITE ROBOTS"

Yeah but you don't have anyone to fight the robots since everyone's an autistic basement artist

^

The robots are the soldiers too

maybe the moment the robots revolt we stop everything and go to anarcho-primitivism xD

Fighting is a labor than can be automated

ok then capitalists would be autistic basement artists too if there was no need for work

@Stoichia21 That would actually be a possibilty.

ik

altough we have memories of the past so we will try to get back to where we were

@Horse Shmeat That is correct, in a sense.

the robots die but books are still there to read

there would be no need for work

Lol Mcveigh was right all along

where would anyone get money

if there was no need for work

We need to smash the machines before it's too late

p o p u l a t i o n c o n t r o l ?

@Horse Shmeat *MANDATORY BIRTH CONTROL*

lmao

https://youtu.be/dupshZbIzEw

@Deleted User >Marx doll in the backround

>lube

Now I'm gonna look like an idiot for making a typo

@TheArrivedHussars I bet he has a hole in the bottom of that marx doll.

I did mean to say you need it to survive 🅱

because it's not a commoditie

>inb4 this meme spreads and I gotta leave the discord

RIP me

@Horse Shmeat Are you planning on going full north korea and making guides for how to make sawdust edible?

no

You just made a meme from a statement I edited

Editied? I don't see any edited tag on that.

Go on it again

I said you do need it

because it's not a commoditie

Look at the definiton for commoditie, because we are starting to back to this again.

i want to be fucked addy

I did in fact edit it after realizing I put don't on

all needs are commodities but not all commodities are needs

ffs leftypol really is as memeious as I imagined it to be

So you could buy and sell food and water?

No

because it is a need

@Stoichia21 Yhea, they had a falling out with 8chan staff and most of them left.

@Horse Shmeat But it is also a commoditie.

You don't buy or sell them. You just get them.

but not all commodities are needs

I just said this.

But all needs are also commodities.

yes

but you get needs

free

well, not free

but you know what I mean

Needs are given to you. Commodities that are not needs you buy.

So it is a welfare state?

>state

ok 🅱

it's not a state

it's communism

it's a stateless society

Excuse me

a commodity is any item marketable that satisfies wants and needs

but you always recieve needs

Welfare *COMMUNE*

you use vouchers to get wants

I keep telling you this

jesus fucking christ

wants and needs are commodities

but you get needs

you use vouchers on wants

I don't see how that's hard to understand

So you pay for your wants but don't pay for your needs?

it just isn't registering

YES

YOU GOT IT