That worker sounds like a pretty well trained wagecuck

The perfect patsy for a land grab

Let's hope he doesn't find god so we can trick him into taking his bosses stuff

wagecuck? like most workers

Yup

>not having independent means

W A G E C U C K

Then?

Do you think that all workers can have them?

That's distributism, an utopic doctrine

No.

It's a sort of achievement for the exceptional

How is exploiting being exceptional?

capitalism is always distorted

Many must be exploited for the exploiter to profit.

Does this not make him exceptional?

yes, capitalists are a minority

No. Capitalists are anyone who believes in economic value.

Only a capitalist accepts local currency

The only non capitalists use other systems exclusively.

no, capitalists are people who have other people working for them

and they profit from them

Anyone who buys or sells has people working for them

We are a complicated planet wide telephathic hyper being

if I sell my shoe to someone face to face I don't have anyone working for me

The taxonomy is far too complex to say anyone is a non-capitalist

Did you make shoe?

Did you make materials to make shoe?

Being capitalist or not doesn't depend on the belief of economic value

It precisely does.

I didn't make the shoe, I bought it before

It is an indication of belief in a value system and identity as such

So you didn't do shit

You took something someone else did, transferred value, then transferred that object for value

In that case I didn't have workers working for me

I just bought a shoe with my money

You have the manufacturer of that shoe working for you

and then sold it

no

I'm putting a case in which I'm no capitalist

I just buy from a shop and sell the shoe

with no people working for me

I'm just trading

now, if I had an enterprise and I had workers doing the shoes; I'd profit and pay the workers a wage

in that case I'd be a capitalist

Financial capital does not depends on production anymore.

It's too late there you're already a willing node in the capitalist system.

A tool of it.

GG NO RE

Production depends on financial capital.

no

Marx explains capitalism

INCORRECTLY

I'm telling who's a capitalist

in many cases.

you think that it depends on belief

I know this because marxists rarely understand economics.

neoclassical economics?

austrian ones?

The tools to understand it aren't in the Marxist literary pantheon.

they falsify marxism

that's why you hate it

@OF-8 Financial capital are Banks, Trade, Investment, international trade, war.

surely you read about the subjective theory of value

)))banks(((

Right so then we're right back to "it's the Jews"

@OF-8 Lenin argued that the time of Production Capital is gone. And now is the time of Financial Capital free from production or country

instead of misinterpreting it, I'd advice you reading it or asking us

I believed once in that like you

Well yeah he helped bring about that system.

because I read neoclassical economics and austrian economics but they falsify marxism

Lmfao

"Don't trust your lying eyes, ask a Marxist"

😎👌🏽

@OF-8 Ask a Marxist on Marxism.

no, read from marx directly not the enemies of marxism

Ask a doctor on health.

My god @Ornament you're so naive

@OF-8 Would you ask a homeless without a profession or education on a street advise on your health?

You know more Marxism than I do, ok. But it's not science, it's not particularly specialized.

Like. ,... that's pretty much what I'm doing here.

Communism is the science of the proletariat

There are marxist economists like Cockshott

I wanna read some lore so I'm hanging out with the larpers

@OF-8 Yes, Marxism is a true science. Marxism is defined as materialism.

a philosophy too

LMFOALFMAOR HOLY SHIT REALLY nigger!?

No. Stop. You are not up your own ass that hard?

yes, again he discovered labour exploitation

@OF-8 If you want to use one word to define Marxism its: "Materialism" - Lenin

Ok now I'm truly struggling.

Holy shit.

Lmfao

Wait. Is this like how women's studies is now a science?

neoclassical economics are idealist pseudoscience, closed models to match the society

Like when we discover an exploitation, bam! New science!

marxism describes capitalism; he didn't propose a clear socialist alternative

that's done by modern marxist economists; planned economy is from Lenin

and it was shaped by Stalin in practice

Bleh, that was legit prescient.

now we have cybernetics to improve supply and demand in real time, in a central planned economy

@OF-8 Marx studies whole society of his time and writes a book called "Capital".

And right back to retard land.

U know much about the technicals of cybernetics?

Because society is defined by Capital

Don't count on that shit being worth a damn in your lifetime.

Allin Cottrel, Paul Cockshott do

Apparently not tho.

also, in Allende's Chile they had a project called Cybersyn

I know this project

Stafford Beer in the 70's wanted to establish a cybernetic system there

My friends and I peed ourselves reading cybersyn docs

maybe, from the 70s

You know tho. I do. I love that you dug that deep

@OF-8 Capital is still there. Believe it or not.

well, when people say that it's an economic dictatorship; I'd point that there are technical improvements

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Cybersyn_control_room.jpg A E S T H E T I C

https://irevolution.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/picture-1.png

just about every third sycophant I fucked in Silicon Valley said something similar.

well, some leftcoms would disagree with me

"But we got mongodb, so socialism will work this time"

but that's not from marx

It's for socialist proposals, not from the analysis of capitalism

Clearly

If it wasn't based on a shit stack of bad assumptions it'd work

it worked

Mmmhm

Is it working now?

you can read about the improvements in socialist countries

well, the socialist countries remaining are too little, so they need some kind of market socialism

Cuba and North Korea

still, I compare Haiti (puppet of the US) and Cuba, I think Cuba is better; but I don't like market socialism I'd focus on emerging it internationally as possible

Russia was a great territory

(Plantation island of the Clinton family)

Ftfy

achieving socialism in the US would liberate a lot of countries

Hillary Clinton funded al qaeda

admitted by her

and that went to ISIS

It would liberate many of their spirits from this mortal coil

this to go against communists

True indeed.

they're all imperialists

Obama, Clinton, Trump

Can I admit something very troubling

I wanted to sit here and be a Diogenes-themed troll, but there's a happening coming.

And I need to know if y'all are human

That's why I'm trying to engage.

So far @Blebleh I would be sad to shoot you

Let's hope the war never comes.

@Ornament Imperialism is imperialism. Does a dog who thinks its a horse, cease being a dog? Subjectivity and intention are the refuge of idealists and cowards.

^ shit like that

I see the culture of the US compared with Europe

they call libertarians extreme right wing propertarians, here we call libertarians left wing anarchists

and the right has some rebellious theme

here is the contrary, the left

Trump pointed out that Obama invaded Irak and other countries

and the voters thinking that he wouldn't invade those places, voted him; but they're the same imperialists

they don't change the base of the economy, they have to obey it

Oh that I could explain the landscape of the global oligarchy

If it's imperialism you wanna stop, you have to remove china

China and Russia are one of the imperialist bloc, nowadays in disadvantage so they want to help the left

the other one is Europe and the US

The last thing I want to do is suggest to Marxist that Africa is the place to try again

But...

Itd give the chinks something to worry about

The left right paradigm here has gone fully fractal

There is the right, it's four facets, and maybe six dimensions

The left, it's thousands of facets, and maybe two dimensions

Which country are you in idk the context of your political systems

all the right wants to keep capitalism going on

reformists in the left want it too

(socdems)

Removing capitalism is a non-starter

Remove usury

That frees the proles to pursue self-sufficiency which is the only defense against wage-cuckery

the usury is just one form

Yes well it's the most harmful form

Gotta start somewhere.

seizing the means and setting a central planned economy is going directly to the root of the problem

Ehhh

It's like you don't wanna win.

worked for the soviets

but that economy requires a grade of self-sufficiency

and the chinese

like the USSR

Lmao death cult

I wanna win

i wanna win 2

If you wanna win, fight usury

that too

Focus on that

ill win by beating the fuck out of my dick

all exploitation

No, that's autism

heck

@Deleted User Subjectivity can equal objectivity in our case. Even very poor and not well studied. The theory brings us closer even if not too much. One who fights imperialism all his life is an anti-imperialist. USSR was more anti-imperialist than anybody else in history.

The worst exploitation is usury

the worker I told you about doesn't invest

just a wage slave, exploited under the law

and if that worker doesn't meets what the bourgeois wants; the worker is in the street

In fact, without usury or its associated mechanisms, exploitation should reach tolerable levels.

we'd need unions to keep that

Amazingly low.

Also without usury a volunteer economy may emerge

market distortion isn't only from usury

Unions are mafias which exploit the worker.

the nature of an unplanned economy leads to distortion, rewarding or not innovation, the same market (anarchy of production)

Usury is the lions share of market distortion, consider its ripple effects.

I agree, but vertical mafias endowed in the state; those kind of unions

The products the originate from usury being allowed in the system

not the anarchist ones

anarcho-syndicalism is free from parasitism for the worker

they're horizontal

You know anarcho-syndicalism is the system used by multi-national corporations at the elite level.

It works like a motherfucker.

Requires a ton of resources to keep the hounds off ur ass.

Multi national corporations can't be unions

they exploit the worker

lol keep going guys

Hehehe. Not for the Exploited no

ah like google

The system looks very different depending on your caste

I've been through many many castes.

that's not anarcho-syndicalism; in this case the productivity for the programmers leads to profit

some works need scientific management like retail for capital

but in this case, they adopt other model

You're still thinking in worker terms.

most anarchist societies had governments

other than the maknovists

Same way Cuba was not very socialist, but anti-imperialist.

The perspective from a vested party is pure anarcho-syndicalism.

cuba was socialist lol

cuba is a great example of socialism

@petit bourgeois it can't

The stock market is a proxy for competition between these syndicates

Parties are hierarchical

stock market won't be in a syndicate society

@petit bourgeois Cuba doesn't have economy to be socialist

explain please

@petit bourgeois They are not self-sufficient.

Cuba and NK seek investments as they can't be in autarchy

@Ornament One who fights imperialism all their life might be an imperialist, or might be a stooge. This is why authority is important. With theory and with leadership. The average cannot be considered the best. Relying on the most competent also leads to the least mistakes, and the least likelihood of betraying your intentions, which is very possible if every individual is allowed to determine his own reality.

any country the size of that would be hard not to be sufficent

i don't think that's a fault of socialism

nk lives off of the black market lol

Cuba did very well for itself to try to curb the embargo

i feel like

even during the embargo they still went on vaccine research and sent soilders to africa

Korea introduced market socialism and they appeal to the bourgeoisie as the cheapest labour in Asia