He'll lose all his money

The fact that there will be a codified "Worker's have the right to the means of production" does not mean a socialist country can't be sustained.

sorry for just leaving before

can sustain but not thrive like a capitalism system

Alright.

So you're saying the capitalist won't like that?

won't like what?

the reason the lead-in-food company will go out of buisness is not a market mechanism, but because they'll be fined or worse

a socialist economy, and a socialist country?

Because I agree.

fined and sued by the people they harm

I consider that in my views.

yes, but that doesn't have much to do with capitalism

the people in charge of that socialist society would very much like that

yes it does, if someone damages you and they didn't say so at all you can sue them

A socialist system is independent of a capitalist one.

laws still exist in a capitalist system

yes, but sueing isn't a capitalist thing

that's just the way our states work

Yes it is

I'm not arguing ancap, even they have the nap

You can still sue people for doing you or your family harm

yes, but that happens under many systems

I'm not saying it's capitalistic only

Timo, what you're proposing simply isn't sustainable or coherent if we consider that the majority of the world is of the working-class.

Just that you can take on a company in capitalism

Most of the people in working class are happy with it (currently less thanks to neo liberalism)

ask teh rest of the world

They're happy, but that's temporary.

class struggle is very obvious in most 3rd world countries

Working class is mostly mad because of the welfare state and in my country the refugees sucking up their money

I don't think a lot of countries are truly capitalistic, sampuka

how do you define capitalism then? because I can't point to a non-capitalist country

ehm maybe north korea

and somalia hardly has a system

Most of what we have now is corporatism, I'm sure you'd agree

Singapore is a good example

very economically free

@Timo))) That's why Communists seek out to promote class consciousness, because even though that's an issue of class society and capitalism, they don't blame it on those two things.

I'd say corporatism is very much capitalism

very rich for a small country

Two different thing to me, that's why i'm not happy with what we currently have

there's no difference between capitalism and corporatism

size of the vountry hardly matters

If it was I should be happy

corporatism naturally occurs from capitalism

like monopolies

it's not that there's no difference between capitalism and corporatism, but that it's just an ill comparison

capitalism is a mode of production

not if the government can't give certain countries the upper hand

and corporatism is hardly well-defined anywhere

hardly defined but definitely what we have now

the socialists see this right, it's just the answer I'm not happy with from them

I don't follow, I've never learned what corporatism is

care to define it for me because I've never heard one?

When the government bails out corporations with our money

corporatism seems to be what occurs between capitalist and political forces, and the policies that results from that inter-mingling.

but the state is very much a part of capitalsm

^

When you need to be a part of some union before you can even have your business

not at all

yes it is

libertarianism is small government, more freedom and capitalism

Not even necessarily capitalism.

no, libertarianism is capitalism with small state

e have big government right now

The state is an apparatus of a ruling class.

Right now it is yes

In Ancient Rome, the senate was filled with the Patricians.

bet they'd buy all sorts of goodies with the government there

saying that libertarianism wants "more capitlism" (whateer that means) is ill-argued

they just want capitslism with less state

Which is a freer capitalism

excuse my spelling

@Sampuka what's your tendency

You can call it more or free, whatever

@Seedle don't align strongly with any

same

Government hinders capitalism, that's my issue

it's all capitalism, you cannot have degrees of capitalism

yes you can

I just say communist with american characteristics for the maymays

then I'd very much like to hear your definition

When the government puts demands on free companies they decrease their freedom to operate how they want (within the law)

yes

because without those regulations

people would be fucked

it's a third party like i said

When a government privatizes a company you'd say the country got more capitalistic right

but related strongly with the ruling capitalist class

mine goes something like: Capitalism is a mode of production where the means of production are privately owned. The owner hires people to work in said means of production in order to gain profits"

That is true and what we have now

in order to gain capital* I.E. money for the sake of making more money

Howver the governments adds all sorts of blockades on those companies (mostly smaller ones)

the governemt is a part of the mode of production, in fact it is what defends and upholds the mode of production

They've been doing it more and more, government hardly ever gets smaller, now we have big govermment

saying the state is not a part of capitalism is pretty dumb

lol no

that's a big part of the anarchist argument anyway

You can't start a new government

You can start a new business

The government is a different animal

entropeneurship is not capitalism

Yes it is

it's very often a part of capitlism

at least in the first world

more so than in any other system yes

You can start a new government.

yes, but htat doesn't make something capitalism

more freedom for your business is more capitalistic

there's entrepeneurship in mutualism too

but that's not capitalism

market socialism too

You can easily make a new government if you have the support and resources.

Which would probably be followed by a civil war with the current government

no you can't, not unless some other country sells you a part of their land completely

which they never will

@Timo))) please define capitalism for us, honestly

"freedom"

@Timo))) land is just whoever has power, you can fight the government

Freedom for the capitalist and not the people lol

though you'd probably lose since there's a reason it's the government

not that hard, the freedom to persue capital in whatever way you want, as long as it complies with the law, lower taxes and less regulations have a positive effect on it

maybe the word state would be better

how do you define capital?

hoarded resources?

The people can become capitalists in a capitalist society

If you call it hoarded sources sure

I'm going in 5, too much on discord

well, then what's the major difference from other modes of production like feudalism?

this is very clear in my definition

yeh I'll be leaving soon too hopefully

There the state has the resources, they can change the law to suit them, a company in capitalism cannot make those laws

in feudalism the state doesn't have the resources, local feudal lords does

protected by the state

same in capitalism

not to the same extent

companies which have capital is protected y the state

And those companies could be replaced by newer companies if it was easier to start new companies

But the current system stands in the way with ridiculous regulations

I mean protected as in litterally protected

If I try to take the capital the police comes

@Timo))) https://socialistworker.org/2009/03/04/marxs-vision-of-socialism

I'll read that

It's related.

I'm glad you wanted to be civil rather than some autistic memer.

I respect it.

honestly I've found a good amount of civil open people here

Yeah those are no good, I don't talk to communists/socialists often, pretty fun

relatively good amount anyways

better than an echo chamber I sometimes go into\

also one thing I'm still wondering about is how non-autist people find this server

Found it on /pol/, talked about leftypol in the thread, this discord was mentiones

When I was a libertarian/liberal, I used to always argue with this one anarcho-syndicalist (trade unionist) a lot, and it was always a completely different point of view I had never really heard before. So I can relate.

Don't worry I don't agree with /pol/ often at all

don't worry, also I had figures out that /pol/ shared this discord a lot

many retarded raids come here

the shit part of /pol/

they leave fast though, that's a plus

yeh

attention span of a fly

because there's not really anyone to raid

this server is basically dead apart from occasional discussions like this one

noone knows who the admin is

George Soros of course

I do like his shill-bux

good money tbh

anyways I'm out

take care

later

the american left should start hosting debates

so we can just publicly humiliate people on live TV and get shit tons of support

won't work

who's gonna host a leftist?

also I don't think any debate will go well

public debates or just too often shit

they get a lot of attention

especially when it's a subject with so many different definitions

and if you have the right speaker, and you know who your target audience is

you'll do great

good recruitment tool

yeah, I guess you could probably find a good debater

Well yeah, avoiding a semantics debate is probably a good idea

but you make it about "current" issues

Neoliberalism

immigration

minority rights

etc

sad thing is it almost always goes to semantics because people define so many things different

on internet debates

but tbh

look at jimmy dore

he's not a debater, but he's left-pilling tons of liberals

if you find the right host or debate-opponent, then a debate could be really good probably

did you see joe rogan when he had milo on his program?

milo got fucked

joe isnt a leftist

but still

iirc noam chomsky also rekt a lot of people

i havent heard any of them

but id say hes a relic of the old left

I'm gonna listen to noam vs alex jones now

it's gonna be shit probably

if you want an interesting one

look up immortal technique and alex jones

immortal technique?

immortal technique is a rapper

revolutionary socialist

great public speaker

I wish he would do more of it actually

Lol

he's got a charismatic appeal.

https://www.rt.com/news/395505-hamburg-police-g20-protest-clashes/

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/chavez-capitalism-immortal-technique-762/

lol so many debates are leftist focused are you kidding me ?

i dont remember any college getting shut down over a leftie

i hate that faggot milo too tho

https://youtu.be/-PBZ8Naa_Us

lewd

tbh not sure what mouse castration has to do with marxism. can someone fill me in? am i missing something?

I'm pretty sure it is right wing.

breaking news: alt-right officially supports slicing the weiners off of rodents.

Left wing is incapable of doing such a thing.

Left wing closes his eyes when there is a fight in hist favorite anime.

Not sure about castrating rodents.

Seems very right wing to me.

idk man, tankies are technically left wing

tankies scare me a lil bit

I'm Marxist-Leninist. There is nothing to fear, lad.

i mean i'm a dirty libertarian socialist

im new to the whole leftism game btw

Pro market?

seeing as how capitalism is a shit, not really

i mean if there is to be a market is has to be heavily regulated

Is there has to be a market?

Are you of merchant ideology or of plan and order?

probably a planned economy

when i say libertarian, i don't mean libertarian in terms of economics

moreso shit like freedom of speech and other rights being protected, if that makes any sense

this probably sounds like senseless rambling

Ra ra RASPUTIN

Nice meme

[citation needed]

prove it wrong

marxism is just another jew trick

it is up to the individual asserting a claim to prove, not an individual that challenges it.

https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/MARX

https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Marx-Family-Tree-138

@kunta kinte You talk about it like ancestry has anything to do with ideology.