#international

*"If Socialism, like all errors, contains some truth (which, moreover, the Supreme Pontiffs have never denied), it is based nevertheless on a theory of human society peculiar to itself and irreconcilable with true Christianity. Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist."*
Encyclical On the Reconstruction of the Social Order by Pope Pius XI, 1931

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:25:49 UTC

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:41:43 UTC

your gif is too big

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:43:45 UTC

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:45:53 UTC

Catholics, however, are pro-union and advocate what they call 'Distributism', "when what necessity demands has been supplied, and one's standing fairly taken thought for, it becomes a duty to give to the indigent out of what remains over." Leo XIII, Rerum novarum, 22.

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:47:55 UTC

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Worker_Movement

Anglican

2017-06-12 05:48:57 UTC

So Chopin isn't a commie anymore?

Anglican

2017-06-12 05:49:01 UTC

Like, at all?

Anglican

2017-06-12 05:49:24 UTC

Or are you just being informative?

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:49:46 UTC

I am studying Marxism, but along the way I also found Aquinas.

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:51:00 UTC

What is surprising to me is that the Church is anti Communism but not anti Anarchism. The Catholic Worker considered itself a Christian anarchist movement.

Anglican

2017-06-12 05:51:36 UTC

I mean, it's a sensible thing when you think of it.

Anglican

2017-06-12 05:52:44 UTC

Take it in a few simple steps. God is the only King, above all Kings and with the perfect law, which is taught through the bible and those who spread it. And so, a state can not, with other motives to spreading moral life, can not be Godly.

Anglican

2017-06-12 05:53:09 UTC

Not saying I believe this, but just rationalising it.

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:56:46 UTC

The Rerum novarum outlines the role of the State as *"the State should be to make sure that the laws and institutions, the general character and administration of the commonwealth, shall be such as of themselves to realize public well-being and private prosperity."* (32). It follows in great detail.

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:56:56 UTC

I never knew the Church was this sophisticated.

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:58:46 UTC

What I mean by 'the line in the sand' image is that I cannot be a commie and a christian together. I have to choose one. I can, however, be a unionist or anarchist (somewhat), which is still considered Leftist.

Deleted User

2017-06-12 05:59:16 UTC

Not that I need to be a Leftist to participate in this channel.

Anglican

2017-06-12 05:59:41 UTC

*What is it about socialism which is incompatible with Christian teachings?*

Anglican

2017-06-12 06:00:03 UTC

If you could tell me, I don't see how it really is in the grand scheme ot hings.

Anglican

2017-06-12 06:00:09 UTC

Maybe some versions there or.

Anglican

2017-06-12 06:00:12 UTC

*of

Mros

2017-06-12 06:00:37 UTC

It's explained in here https://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19370319_divini-redemptoris.html

Deleted User

2017-06-12 06:02:10 UTC

47 says *"The right to possess private property is derived from nature, not from man; and the State has the right to control its use in the interests of the public good alone, but by no means to absorb it altogether. The State would therefore be unjust and cruel if under the name of taxation it were to deprive the private owner of more than is fair."*

Deleted User

2017-06-12 06:02:23 UTC

Socialism wants to abolish private property.

Anglican

2017-06-12 06:03:54 UTC

Well, if that is the defination of socialism, then i am not a socialist.

Deleted User

2017-06-12 06:04:15 UTC

*"8. The fact that God has given the earth for the use and enjoyment of the whole human race can in no way be a bar to the owning of private property. For God has granted the earth to mankind in general, not in the sense that all without distinction can deal with it as they like, but rather that no part of it was assigned to any one in particular, and that the limits of private possession have been left to be fixed by man's own industry, and by the laws of individual races. Moreover, the earth, even though apportioned among private owners, ceases not thereby to minister to the needs of all, inasmuch as there is not one who does not sustain life from what the land produces. Those who do not possess the soil contribute their labor; hence, it may truly be said that all human subsistence is derived either from labor on one's own land, or from some toil, some calling, which is paid for either in the produce of the land itself, or in that which is exchanged for what the land brings forth. "*

Deleted User

2017-06-12 06:04:30 UTC

*"9. Here, again, we have further proof that private ownership is in accordance with the law of nature. Truly, that which is required for the preservation of life, and for life's well-being, is produced in great abundance from the soil, but not until man has brought it into cultivation and expended upon it his solicitude and skill. Now, when man thus turns the activity of his mind and the strength of his body toward procuring the fruits of nature, by such act he makes his own that portion of nature's field which he cultivates - that portion on which he leaves, as it were, the impress of his personality; and it cannot but be just that he should possess that portion as his very own, and have a right to hold it without any one being justified in violating that right. "*

Deleted User

2017-06-12 06:05:00 UTC

Sorry for the wall of text. The document is well worth reading for those interested in the intersection of Christianity and Politics.

Mros

2017-06-12 06:06:11 UTC

Also Chopin, if you want to learn more about Distributism you can read The Outline Of Sanity, Utopia Of Usurers, and What's Wrong With The World. Three books by G.K. Chesterton

Deleted User

2017-06-12 06:06:24 UTC

Thanks!

Mros

2017-06-12 06:07:24 UTC

I'm planning on reading those, as well as his theological works. Particularly The Everlasting Man, as that was one of the major influences that led to C.S Lewis to convert to Christianity.

Deleted User

2017-06-12 06:09:05 UTC

*"You are aware indeed, that the goal of this most iniquitous plot is to drive people to overthrow the entire order of human affairs and to draw them over to the wicked theories of this Socialism and Communism, by confusing them with perverted teachings. But these enemies realize that they cannot hope for any agreement with the Catholic Church, which allows neither tampering with truths proposed by faith, nor adding any new human fictions to them. This is why they try to draw the Italian people over to Protestantism, which in their deceit they repeatedly declare to be only another form of the same true religion of Christ, thereby just as pleasing to God. Meanwhile they know full well that the chief principle of the Protestant tenets, i.e., that the holy scriptures are to be understood by the personal judgment of the individual, will greatly assist their impious cause. They are confident that they can first misuse the holy scriptures by wrong interpretation to spread their errors and claim God's authority while doing it. Then they can cause men to call into doubt the common principles of justice and honor"* Encyclical On the Church in the Pontifical States by Pope Pius IX, 1849

Deleted User

2017-06-12 06:09:46 UTC

Protestantism is the gateway to Socialism.