You realize for most of human history, wages didn't exist?

if a wage didnt exist it was either slavery or they were in a family

The point isn't to "give" it to them, it's to make a system where that wealth can be distributed on the society's own terms, or even where wealth is not a primary factor in many life decisions.

Like I said

Ownership

Communism is basically like mutual aid societies

But instead the input is the work provided by everyone, and the output is what is derived from their work

so what happens if one person doesnt work

and another person sees that person not working, getting free benefits, and then everyone stops working?

You'd be pretty fucking bored out of your mind not doing anything with your life

This depends. Is the society automated?

You can't automate everything

the society is a normal society with the concept of communism applied

if it is automation then it isnt communism because the people arent in control

So basically the level of automation we have now?

'a machine' is

yea that would work the same

our current state of automation still requires people to work

the machines just wont handle things correctly if they dont have ppl working

Wrong. Automation would still be communist. It just wouldn't be people in the factories.

I don't mean automation as in "machines make some of the decisions"

I mean automated production.

ye then thats the same situation

someones still gotta flip the switches

and whoever does that is whoever can control the production

https://discord.gg/MAmJc7

if it requires effort, then ppl will just choose 'not to do it'

if it doesnt require effort, people will just choose to 'take more for themselves'

plus as the other guy said someone will probably just start killing people out of boredom

The point of production will be use though.

You're not producing for the sake of possibly selling some of the products like in capitalism.

It's hard to talk about because detailing exactly how a socialist society will organize itself is like predicting the future.

but at a point of the second definition i put then it would have to be socialistic economy with no choice

because capitalism wont work in a society where there is no way to make money

its just the fact that it would be inherently more chaotic because people would have no work and no purpose

Marx proposed labor vouchers. Non-transferable, tied to the amount of time you worked (job dependent I believe), and directly tied to you.

but how would you work

if the machines did everything

But weren't those eventually to disappear? @Seedle

Yes, as scarcity became irrelevant

That's what they had in catalonia

And some other factors, I haven't read Gotha Programme yet.

But some places got rid of money altogether

@styles You could be any number of things.

That's the difference between anarcho-collectivism and anarcho-communism

im saying in a society where the concept of working is completely demolished by the fact machines can do everything a human can

the former supports having labor vouchers until there is no need for money

in that scenario capitalism cant exist, there would be chaos, and several other bullshit

in the part where it is like now (machines make things easier) then that still is based on reality

Yeah I agree, capitalism ends when automation progresses into not needing people anymore.

That's when socialism is the answer.

but then a machine would have to handle it

We could have automation

because people would just start killing each other for more shit than someone else

Like, right now

what would be their purpose by definition if they couldnt work so it would cause many problems

Not in a communist society.

Why would people kill eachother for shit when goods are produced without currency on the basis of need?

because if theyre not working

they have everything already

then the only thing that can come to mind is 'well i need some way of having currency so ill just have more shit than the other guy'

this is how currency is shown in america, by having more expensive shit, rather than having money

at least the rich man's way of showing who has more money without giving a number

I get what you mean.

Capitalism produces capitalist morals and attitudes though.

capitalism produces capitalist society which is a basis of success and makes up the rich types of 'the 1%'

consumerism is the destruction caused by the result of over saturation of production

capitalism or socialism the source isnt relevant

I was responding directly toward your claim that people would kill others for "nice stuff"

i would say 'more stuff' if everything is equal, then it would be the quantity

Labor vouchers.

would still require work

in normal society the only thing that works in a culturally diverse society is capitalism

because of the fact that the lower class incompatible with the standards of the culture the society is based upon will take advantage of socialistic benefits

https://discord.gg/uHN76Jt

I'd go with brawler

soldier

https://discord.gg/V3cAhQv

Why does druid look my friend named Druid?

@Deleted User is your friend a stoner weirdo from the 70s

Can I get some invites to other servers also pls

What kind mate

We have links to everything

Politics I guess

its here

oh shit what up

my boy florist

whatup

its rude boy

its fucking rude boy posting fashy memes in my cozy home server

florist what is this place it looks magnificant

hello gomrades

flameoman hello

flameoman meet florists

i love florists

will he help me take toothbrushes from ancaps?

this shit is fucking nazbol

join our Jeb please. https://discord.gg/CpU6c98

Jeb