anyone practice Krav Maga? I've recently began taking lessons

I took a little bit of it years ago

It was just basic combatives though

Its jooish, bruh

@Aleis⊕ccidentalis

@Tyler0317 It was officially "created" by an Israeli, yeah, but it's also practical and largely based on boxing and wrestling (which are actual European martial arts)

I try to remove myself from the context haha

I also have a deeper intellectual criticism of Krav, but i'm in bed atm.

I'll walk thru the idea tomorrow

sure, goodnight

they teach it up at my gym. It looks pretty brutal. My only practical problem with it is that you can't play full contact with it

(With keeping server rules in mind) I think that ... we forget how brutal we need to be or not be In a confrontation....If the brutality of Krav Maga is needed in a given situation then I’m not using extremities to inflict said brutality.... I’m going to my “toolbox” that I’ve brought with me to the dance. If by some chance I don’t have said tools and I only have my extremities... mma works. I studied Krav ... “no rules mma” .... ya know ... fighting

@Aleis⊕ccidentalis
My critisicm of Krav is:
1- You cannot spar
As eye gouges and kicks to the groin are unpracticable with peers
2-There is no competitive opportunity. No Krav tournaments that I am aware of
3-It's ✡ ish

😉

I'm too squeamish to go around jamming my thumbs into people's eyeballs as a general matter

@Tyler0317 All fair points

my instructor is pretty cool, and shows me a lot of techniques from true European wrestling

If it doesn’t involve lemon scented oil and wrastlin it ain’t worth the tits on a 🐗 boar.

@Aleis⊕ccidentalis Have you heard of catch wrestling?

Pardon me for my soapbox, catch wrestling has been an interest of mine for the past 18 months or so.

@Tyler0317 I haven't ever heard of that. Do you have any good links that explain what it is? Or can you?

My apologies to the other observers for my tangent.

When the "modern" olympics resumed in 1896, the sports were recomposed. Wrestling by historic rules was won by submission OR by pin.

Modern wrestling ruleset was made more sporting, with victories by pin or by points.

Once upon a time, what is now called Catch Wrestling(catch meaning 'Submission' in English of the time) was normal wrestling. Teddy Roosevelt, and Brigham Young were known to be enthusiastic Catch Wrestlers in their time.

Have you heard of Crying "uncle"? This was the way one verbally submitted in wrestling. Much like the now ubiquitous tapout of modern BJJ.

Catch Wrestlers became famous at carnivals in the early 1900s, and several of them branched out into Pro Wrestling, Promoters learned the value of having choregraphed matches, and the PRO Wrestling(Hulk Hogan) of our era descends from this alteration of the art of wrestling.

Ironically, Several wrestlers of the early 1900's ended up in Japan, where fight tournaments were a big ticket. Men like Karl Gotch made a name for themselves beating Japs, leading to European wrestling becoming a widely valued martial art in Japan. Called Shoot Wrestling, shoot being slang for "real" as opposed to fake pro wrestling.

The modern MMA promotion Shooto comes from "Shoot wrestling" in Japan.

Just like how foreign and exotic influences became fashionable in America(Karate, Tae Kwon Do,, BJJ), European wresting became fashionable in Japan, Kazushi Sakuraba being a notable descendant of Catch Wresting, and defeating 4 different members of the famous Gracie BJJ family.

--- My overall point being, Europe had it's own martial art, Catch Wrestling, which is of equal or greater standing to the more popular grappling arts of today, BJJ/Judo. We ought to be proud of it, and I hope that we are able to perpetuate our own martial art into the future, rather than BJJ.

Tangent complete. Thank you for your patience.

Some links to follow.@Aleis⊕ccidentalis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_wrestling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_B7Wd4LF28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH1AU6l-7kM

https://bjjfanatics.com/blogs/news/the-brutal-art-of-catch-wrestling

Although I have never studied it I have been fasciated by catch wrestling myself because of the same reasons you listed @Tyler0317 as well as because of my fandom of pro wrestling as a kid and the cross over that used to exist.

@Tyler0317 I may have already said this but I think BJJ came more from catch wrestling styles in vale tudo than it did from tradionall JJ

@Deleted User mma/vale tudo has certainly had a positive effect on bjj. Keeping it rooted in practicality and effectiveness.

BJJ never had a weird kung fu death touch phase.

@Tyler0317 hey brother ... i’ve been training BJJ for over 10 years… And I really enjoyed the above comments you made about how catch wrestling is “our European martial art.” I have never thought of it that way. I’ve been training shoot- boxing for eight years solid (simultaneously) and it’s very similar to what you are describing but again I must admit that the ethnic component (tradition) was lost on me until now. Good looking out. I look forward to more passionate posts about this.

@Punisher 👍🏼

I need to take my own advice. Catch wrestling doesn't exist in my state, which I suppose is an opportunity for someone like me to make it happen.

I competed in amateur MMA for a few years, but can't really claim to be an actual martial artist.
The specialized skillset, passing down the tradition and philosophies really appeals to me.

That is something BJJ does way better than western martial arts.

Carlos and Helio were White.

http://www.global-training-report.com/helio2.htm

Helio also sounds like a traditionalist or fascist here.

"Nature did not create men and women by mistake, but for each one to do his or her part. The man takes care of the woman and the woman takes care of the children, who will be the men of tomorrow."

How do you guys do your solo martial arts practice? Where do you put it in your workout routine?

@Gaius Mucius Scaevola I do bag drills after my workout.

I've found that cardio after the workout reduces the DOMS(muscle soreness) the following day.

@Tyler0317 That's some great history. I'd like to learn it myself or teach it to my kids. It's disappointing that many Whites don't realize that we have our own history of martial arts, and they think it is something unique to only Asian countries.

@Aleis⊕ccidentalis Yeah, I thought that martial arts were rampant in Asia, but we westerners seem far more interested in this stuff than they are. I was in the Philippines for awhile, and never could find a Kali school, but western Boxing schools abounded.

I follow a Youtuber who started an MMA school in China, who points out that essentially no Chinese do Kung Fu any more. It's just a historical curiosity for them.

https://www.youtube.com/user/balletman

@Aleis⊕ccidentalis As for catch wrestling, the only instructor/affiliate system that I know of is CSW Combat Submission Wrestling, run by Erik Paulson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Paulson

https://twitter.com/IdentityEvropa/status/1007015847825690624

good pics 👍

Pretty damn bummed Stipe got wobbled in the first round

Rematch should be good though

I'm not surprised. Cormier is genuinely the total package.

There may not be a rematch, with Lesnar somehow being thrust into contention.

@BryceB-ND

Yeah that stuff with lesnar was stupid

How old is Lesnar now?

Just signed up for my first bjj class. I know virtually nothing. Any advice?

Don't panic

Just breathe

Tap often and if anything feels like it hurts, tap

Nobody will call you a pussy if you tap a lot as a beginner

Thx man

@Pat-MA *Stick with it!*

@Pat-MA Good on you , bro.

6 months from now, you will feel like you have super powers. 💪🏼

Appreciate it guys

Anyone here box? What brand of gloves do you use for bag work? It seems like everything under $100 is Pakistani made and uses the same pattern.

I don't use gloves for bag work

@Svat - NY I use fairtex

I kind of would go against using gloves, to train your fist strength

Don’t not wear bag gloves. Believe me when I tell you that the long term trauma to your joints and wrists will have you regretting that decision in a few short years. My hands are in a constant state of inflammation. I have several bone spurs. My wrists need constant massaging.

Some of my fingers are off alignment.

I mean, I don't go 100% by any means

but I'm also throwing in combos and kicks/knees/elbows

so its not exclusively handwork

but by the end of the session I have 0 pain whatsoever

Planning on the gloves. "Toughening up" ones hands is not worth a lifetime of pain and easy re injuries.

The first thing people break in a fight is their hands.

Also, as I mentioned, I'm not going 100%, am painfree, and have been doing this for about a year now.

🙄 Do what you will though

@Deleted User How hard did you used to go on bag work?

I'm not trying to second guess you or your experience, just adding my own.

@Deleted User not overly hard, but I’ve probably done it for a much longer time than you have. That said, my hands were hurting in maybe my second or third year

@Svat - NY @Deleted User Agreed.

I fractured my right pinky in sparring while wearing MMA gloves.

My pinky is now crooked and my knuckle is double the size of the others from the calcium deposit.

You don't want crooked fingers! Wear bag gloves! 😉

Yeah I agree with @Tyler0317 definitely get bag gloves I use 16oz and double wrap my hands. And when sparring I use 12oz. Ringside are well made gloves but pricey.

Most important is to wrap your hands right

I didn't for the first years I got into it and today I can feel it

When teaching others I point out that 'Humans aren't built to punch'.

If we were, we'd have bony clubs for hands. Our hands are relatively brittle, and comprised of ~20 small bones.

Our hands are built for dexterity, for fine motor skills, for grasping.

While striking can be effective, precautions must be taken.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ns2LNGCnUHo

@Deleted User

Try hard status.

Grats Sam! I know how good that feels man. Keep at it!

Nice!

Anyone here familiar with Zendo-Kai?

@Whitelash Is it related to the glorious Rex Kwon Do?

That’s what I’m afraid of. Its the only “combat sports” in my local area

@Whitelash It's worth checking out. Worst case is you waste a couple hours and don't go back.

Something is better than nothing. You should always pick the place that's easiest to form a habit of going to. Too many people focus really hard on the style of martial art, when the reality is knowing and training any martial art puts you above someone who has never trained. Check it out, it looks legit from what I read

@Whitelash

All kidding aside, there is value to be had is something as bland as tai chi.

Anything that gets you up and moving, makes you accustomed to using your body and gives you confidence is beneficial.@Whitelash

Relevant: https://youtu.be/I_0MPnE3iYw?t=4m58s

Would anybody be interested in getting patches to put on a gi with this logo?

It is the patch of Lauri Torni.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_T%C3%B6rni

He fought against Commies his whole life and the design looks like the dragons eye in a way. DM me if you want one for free. I will order in about a week. To get the volume right for the order, hit the react below. @everyone

Patch Check

@Sam Anderson I'd buy that

Probably gonna order between 30-50. Its not like they go bad or anything.

I’ll take one Sam.

https://youtu.be/6iV3sfi4s38

on the topic of what to do when your leg gets caught

lol

Hahaha

Hahahah

The guy on ground must’ve gone into the guard when that kid likely fell on him because that looked like a hard hit

https://youtu.be/CZiWm40mg7Q

just got done seeing this one

god damn

Was wild

So... a buddy (of ours) who I’ve trained BJJ with for over a decade (he actually red pilled me) and I are putting together a “mma” system of self defense.... for example ... we want to focus on self defense that is applicable without wraps and gloves (we’re avoiding a lot of hooks and knock out power strikes… We are keeping our hands lateral when striking) .... techniques that are usable in real life situations... that avoids going to the ground and playing a strategic Brazilian jujitsu game for over 30 minutes… Because as we all know getting kicked in the head doesn’t feel very good… So we are working a system that involves lots of elbows, knees, head butts and big body mechanics… I encourage everyone to look at the Marine Corps martial arts program… Or simply called MCMAP @Deleted User .… I bring it up because I would really like some input from all of you… Techniques and strategies that you all think are important to incorporate etc.… i am absolutely open to all styles even though we are leaning more wrestling, boxing-ish....I’d like to streamline this curriculum... write it down and distribute it .....and make it accessible for our wives, girlfriends(hope they don’t meet) and children...
Input appreciated...
Thx Fam

@Punisher Coming to Denver? You could host a class there.

Not anytime soon my friend... sorry @Wood-Ape - OK/MN (bad-ass handle btw) any sig?

Sig?

hate to say it but

krav maga?

Eh, I did some of it

I feel it has the same problem that all other styles tend to

practicing unrealistic orunintuitive things

I don't know but I've heard a lot of great guys tell me that krav maga is one of the most practical martial arts out there. That's kinda what they designed it for. Practical hands-on self defense for soldiers, etc.

Clearly I.E. can make sport and cultural waves by monopolizing the revival of Gymkata. 😋 https://youtu.be/5keiiLMIuuc

Great post @Punisher

@Tyler0317 would have some thoughts as well I’d wager

@Punisher I am/was a MCMAP brown belt

No shit^

Legit Tyler

Tips hat🎩

Tyler’s legit

My Brazilian jujitsu instructor was also a MCMAP instructor so that’s probably feeding this ....

I have the crooked nose to prove I can take a punch, lol 😉

Hopefully most of us in this forum do…

^^

I'm conflicted on MCMAP

I liked it a ton, but then got into MMA after leaving the .mil,,, SO much of the basic self-defense stuff doesn't work well against other skilled dudes.

We are then left at that eternal crossroads,

-Do we train to defeat skilled opponents, because those techniques are 'tried and true'.
or...
-Do we train to win as quickly as possible against the most likely(unskilled) opponent.

@Rogue The issue with Krav is it's is unspar-able

I don't know of a way to train groin kicks and eye gouges with a sparring partner, lol.

I remember eye gouges in MCMAP

haha

Good point on the crossroads, tho.

@Punisher @Tyler0317 Okay, so having had some time to think about it, my first suggestion is defense on your feet. Literal defense. Fighting withdrawal, defending while back-pedaling, defending haymakers; basically, the art of getting out of there while being attacked (sometimes by multiple opponents) without turning your back

Yes Will. Agreed. Have you ever looked into the idea of “stacking” opponents?
I’m a about to teach a class... I’ll be back in about 2 hours and we can chop it up if you want.. or we could VC if peeps want in?

Would be nice to schedule a VC with all the brains on this

For real right!??

most nights at 9 my time (6 your time) work for me

I PM’d @Tyler0317 I was gonna try to connect with him as well tonight... 6 works for me tonight ... hopefully he can make it..

rgr that lemme know

I'm free at 9pm central tonight

Don't let me hold back progress though

Can we do a different night? Would be good if all of us could get together at once

@Punisher @Tyler0317

Sure.

I'm generally free after 6 central

@Deleted User

Sounds good @Deleted User I’m smoking some salmon....

How about tomorrow night? I’m free all evening on Wednesday

Fellas, how can I bully my local friends into sparring regularly?

I talk about training like it's the most awesome thing in the world, until they ask a question

To which my response is "Dude let's go spar at the park right now, I'll teach you!"

Dont ask, tell

@Deleted User Easy. Attack them when they walk out of their houses.

true...

also, I'm mainly trying to get my buddy with the octagon in his backyard to hop in lol

it's too perfect

He has an octagon and doesn’t train? That’s like having a beer and not drinking it.

That's like owning a motorcycle but you don't ride

Dude, who puts an octagon in their yard... That is both awesome and incredibly impractical 🤣

it was for some like middleschool dodgeball kind of sport a long time ago

but it's just a decent sized wooden octagon with dry dirt ground

@Deleted User gagaball... no relation to "Lady" Gaga.

Popular at YMCA camps.
By magnitudes the most injury-causing activity.

Get twenty fifth-graders in there and that octogon becomes barely distinguishable from a Nigerian street fight

@Deleted User @Punisher I'm home for the evening.

Give me a holla when y'all are free to talk.

@Deleted User hey boss I’m at work..... is 6:30 my time too late?

That’s 9:30 my time - I can handle that I think.

Thats 830 central, i'm game

I’m fading fast lads. May have to meet without me tonight

Sleep cuck 😴

I’m the only one in all of IE that goes to bed early

😉

The older I get, the less sleep I need.

6 hrs is a full recharge for me.

Wow I need 8

Well I made it

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VyllQuQuHZE

@Tyler0317

That was cool

@Punisher. California time 😉

😃

Their timezone is 13 hours behind us I think

Shit did I space it fellas ?

Sorry

@Tyler0317 @Deleted User

Haha np

Finished my on boarding for the martial arts gym tonight. Can hit up class everyday now, psyched

Damn what a workout

@BryceB-ND What kind of martial arts?

Muay thai and bjj

awesome. the twin pillars of ass-kickin'

It's awesome Will, and I finally understand why you do that funny dance in Muay Thai haha

Sore ! Being up on your toes like that kills your calfs. Loving it so far. Happy Thanksgiving everyone

haha yeah the old muay thai march

First night sparring tonight after tough cardio. Got my ass handed to by one of the instructors. Can definitely say I learned more in those 10 minutes than in 2 lessons lol

Nice! There’s nothing like sparring/training in general.

Absolutely. It can be daunting but I would recommend anyone who isnt training currently to at least give it a go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJuQP0hO6s4

Royce Gracie basically beats this Asian blob of fat by using his legs to triangle the dudes arm.

The early UFCs were wild. "Street Fighter" / "Enter the Dragon" type all comers tournaments of different styles. For better or worse (truth is always bittersweet), the BJJ/Muay Thai (and similar wrestling+boxing type training sets) empirically proved themselves mostly superior.

Pride was nuts

Best strat? Kick 'em in the head.

Pride soccer kicks were nasty

or if you we're bas rutten or Andy hug, kick em in the leg for a KO lol

Best part about losing the mouse for my laptop is that instead of vidya I just watch old mma vids

Did anyone see the wrestling referee who made the black kid cut his dreadlocks? Could that have given him an advantage?

They are unsanitary. Some refs are specific about a lot of stuff. More commonly no beards or long nails

He didn't make him cut his dreadlocks. He said your hair is out of regs and you cant wrestle so the kid had someone cut his dreadlocks

Makes sense, I cant imagine he would force him to cut them

Would you guys reccomend boxing as a legitimate thing to get into versus more modern mma? Always wanted to learn legit boxing.

@Mark Vandal Yup.

Boxing's great.

Jocko Willink has it as the third best martial art in the world, behing BJJ and Wrestling.

Just be sure to learn how to defend takedowns.

https://twitter.com/RenerGracie/status/1080561882191130624?s=19

+1 for BJJ

Beautiful kimura

(and, of course, why is it always black guys)

Looking to get into BJJ. Was a first degree black belt in karate at 11 and quit before my 2nd degree test because of football in high school 🙄that was half my life ago. There’s a Renzo Gracie school right by me in NJ. Anyone up in this area that does BJJ?

@Fred X - NJ I believe Brunswick does BJJ

And Gracies BJJ is a great way to start

A number of us do

Everyone should have some basic striking and grappling experience at the very least

For self-defense, of course.

@Sam Anderson @Reinhard Wolff thank you both. Keep you posted on the journey.

https://m.ibjjf.com/champInterna.php?id=21508

I’m looking to attend this to spectate unless I feel confident enough participating as a beginner white belt. Would anyone else be interested in spectating as well?

We can make a BJJ nyc meetup out of it. Maybe go to the event and then do something else as a group with the day.

I can advertise it on the main server if you'd like. I probably won't compete for a while though.

We can do that in about a month or so, maybe end of March or beginning of April since it’s some time away. However long people would need to plan for it

https://youtu.be/20clynSkgOY

Lol every suspect in this vid is black

Got my ass handed to me at M. Thai Monday night. Definitely lights a fire under a person to get better quick when you're getting whooped to not let it happen again.

I’ve learned a lot by getting beat up. A LOT. 🤣

Howdy, gents. I’ve got a quick question, even though I’m sure it’s been debated here before. If I want to start training a martial art discipline, which one should I pursue?

Go to an MMA gym that offers striking and grappling, try them out and specialize

But I'd recommend having the basics down for both

Striking: Muay Thai and or boxing
Grappling: BJJ

Awesome, thanks for the advice.

@whiskeytangofoxtrot The answer depends on what you want to accomplish. What are your goals?