https://youtu.be/AbAzdLWTt0k

Everything about this video sucks. Sorry but it’s what I got today. Finally about to eat for the first time

You had two more reps.

Was only programmed For two reps

@peytonT thanks for your thoughts.
@Suomi Stronk I look forward to your supplement-industry-insider insights

Would it be better to just talk in voice? @ThisIsChris

OK!

@Gaius Mucius Scaevola Can I talk to you in voice about it?

@Suomi Stronk i've got a friend coming over in a bit but i can hop in for a few minutes until he gets here

Gotcha. I'm getting in now. On mobile so excuse me there.

can you hear me?

oh shit my buddy just got here @Suomi Stronk

let me know when you're free some other time to chat

A few weeks ago I mentioned in this chat that my gym owner (former champ of some sort) has as a program for absolute beginners Day 1 of week Squats and Bench 3x8 work sets, Day 2 Squats and Bench 4x6, Day 3 3x8 Deadlift and Ancillary Deadlift exercises. I mentioned that in this chat and got a lot of comments that "Sounds great sounds like the guy knows what he's doing" and in particular when contrasting with SS I heard from here and other people I've talked to that "Yeah the 3x8 is better than Rippetoe's 3x5 for a beginner, you need to build volume". At the time it sounded reasonable, and I am used to the 3x8 sets now, but another friend who follows SS to the letter asked me why 3x8 would be better than 3x5 for a beginner. I could say "You need to build volume" but I realized I don't actually know what I would mean by that. Can anyone please explain?

I don't get why you would need to build volume for the sake of volume

when I ran SS I was able to progress so fast, and likely faster than I would have with 3x7

Adding more reps or sets is adding volume. Volume being the total amount of lifts. I assume he is suggesting that higher volume is better, and as a beginner you benefit more with extra volume. For example, in a lot of Sheiko routines, the volume is added by the amount of sets instead of reps. You'll end up doing 7-8 sets, but for lower rep counts. As you get further into strength programming and start to use things like Sheiko, Smolov, or Westside, having that "built volume" will help prepare you more than a 3x5 I think. 3x5 is barely anything. 15 reps? 3x8 adds almost 10 reps to your count

3x8 too

My bench progressed faster with volume, whereas my squat progressed much faster with 3x5*

Russian coaches say that you should train smaller muscle groups with more volume and larger muscle groups with less volume

So that makes sense! How interesting

I think that the idea of volume for beginners is that you are still getting use to the movement, and if you are adding weight in proper intervals, then for a while you will be lifting less weight that your body really needs to stimulate growth. This is due to the fact that your muscles are just getting use to moving this was and not necessarily that they can't lift more weight.

By adding volume you are exhausting the larger muscles due to work load without needing much weight and also hitting smaller muscles groups that will be called upon once the larger groups get tired.

But I don't have any science at my finger tips to back that up. @ThisIsChris

^^

I disagree on the volume aspect for a complete beginner. Because the novice has not adapted to the movements he will experience debilitating soreness from high volume work and not be able to make progression early.

And now we have reached the classic impass of all discussions regarding specific preferences in fitness and training: "Try out both programs and see what works for you." I would suggest starting with fewer sets and if you are seeing measurable progress, then just stay with that as long as it works. If you start to stall on adding weight to the bar, then check first your nutrition and sleep patterns before considering changing to another program.

@BryceB-ND @BigBadSaxon - ID @Fox @peytonT @Zyklonius B Gassem-LA thanks a lot guys, I didn't realize how much there was to think about! Looks like there are several aspects to consider, including absolute beginner's building up muscle and the differences between smaller muscle groups and larger muscle groups. Funny enough I remember Mark Rippetoe's rationale for his 3x5 is (paraphrasing) "there are lots of aspects that can be debated, but the most important thing might be to pick something and just go" and he thought 3x5 was a good enough program that was simple. He seems to be reflecting the same point that Fox is on how many aspects could be considered. And as Bryce mentioned he found tweaking the 3x8/3x5 for different exercises, I think I'm at a point where I will probably adjust some of the reps. Not sure why but from some exercises I feel like I get more out of it if I do higher volume, and some exercises I want to focus on the reps more, in particular I've had more trouble with my 7th and 8th reps when doing bench press, which makes me wonder if it makes me think to focus on 3x5 on bench press, though that might be more of a retreat than a good idea. That's just an example. For some other excercises I feel like I would be cheating if I didn't do at least 8 reps, but I wonder if that means instead I should be adding more weight to feel more stress.

I should add the caveat that my preference for lower volume applies strictly to the heavy compound movements i.e. squat, deadlift,press etc

Any set over 6 I lose count lol. I have to start counting like “1, and , 2, and” would be four reps

@peytonT haha there's a few sets I intended to 8 but I go to the video and see I only did 7. I know where I mess up counting, I'll be like "alright I'm about to do rep number 5, ok here we go, wait is this rep 5 or did I already complete rep 5" so now a lot of the times I throw in one extra rep if I feel unsure.

Yeah sets of 8 at 70% on deadlift leave me mentally disabled for a few moments

I second @Zyklonius B Gassem-LA feeling about low sets on heavy lifts. Intensity is more important than volume in that regard (imo).

I feel the same way about bench

Anyone else get DOMS exclusively in their left knee

no

doms, in the knee

erm

like a muscle around the knee?

delayed onset muscle soreness kinda necessitates a muscle, not a joint haha

you probly have some hipshift or something using your stronger leg

mess around with unilaterals

wait, this is from squatting right?

There’s an awful Skyrim joke to be made here but I’ll refrain

It was a joke lol

Knee injuries being ignored under a factual misunderstanding

A few weeks ago I wrote about a bench press set that strained an upper an muscle. I fixed it with muscle relaxer balm and resting a few days. The next workout I dropped down 5 pounds and have slowly slowly been creeping up to that weight again that strained me last time. Tonight I do it. One more set to go.

Just resting before it. One note though is the problem wasn't that I didn't complete the work out that time, it was just the next few days I felt like I had a very tense right upper an muscle. Hope I've done enough training, rest, warm up to mitigate that this time.

Follow-up, last set went really well, better than first two, which indicates to me I should warm up more before the work sets. Also I made an extra effort to prop up on my back heels.

My workout today. RIP my back right now.

>that many sets and back exercises

Do you spend 3 hours in the gym, bro-bro?

I'm glad you're going for the gold, but it does seem excessive. But your cut seems to be going well so maybe you have it figured it.

Oosh, that is a whole lot of volume and exercises. Why not pick 4 or 5 of your favorite and just work those harder?

@Suomi Stronk#0869 calculate your tonnage

RepsXweight all over 2000

Looks like a good workout to me

I used to do workouts like that when I was younger and had several hours to spend at the gym

@Deleted User Most my workouts take about an hour and a half to two hours

I only take 30 second breaks in between sets, which is pretty much enough time to change weight

Oh yeah that changes things haha

I'm a fan of the 60-90 second rest so it lengthens things quite a bit

I guess lol at my 3-7 minute breaks between heavy triples and doubles. Although most of that time is spent on set up and getting my belt tight and chalking

Between warmups and going slow for the ankle it took me 30 minutes to get through my deadlifts

Same

During any working set (80%+ for me) I take exorbitantly long breaks

Had 2x5 at 80% for squat today and there's no way I'm not taking at least a couple minutes

Between work sets I take 8 minutes minimum. I find a few extra minutes really makes a difference

definitely makes my workouts long though

Goal is to be practically crawling out of the gym by the end of my workouts

Workout for leg day here in a few minutes

Heavy bench day today calls for 800mg of Ibuprofen so that my forearm tendinitis doesn't make me drop the bar. Need to survive this so that I can make it to the conference next week

@Nick-NJ hope it goes well man, sounds rough

Survived and hit a nice overhead press volume PR!

Thanks @ThisIsChris

is it a bad idea to work out on a day you're doing an all day fast?

Just be aware of your body and keep the intensity moderate

You'll be fine, I fast once a week and it's all good

595 deadlift PR after squats today, boys. 605 next week

fugg!

Debating if I should lift or not tonight. Body is still aching from last week's back day. Should I take another rest day and hit it hard tomorrow?

depends on what kinda soreness

@Deleted User It's not debilitating, but it still feels like someone took a sledgehammer to my lower back

f

you could hit things aside from your lower back i suppose

like instead of bb rows, seal rows or something

Getting that concrete feeling in my lower back never affects my lift just my mindset. But that’s just my experience

@Suomi Stronk a whole week of DOMS?

You did too much.

Try this: death by pull up. Every minute on the minute you do a pull up and with each minute you do another. IE, minute 1 is one pull up and minute two is 2 pull ups. So on and so forth until you fail.

sounds like pain

i love it

will be there for an hour

1 pull-up a minute

Does anyone here use a landmine in their workouts? I did legs and back with it and it was one of the best workouts I've ever had. Wondering about others experiences and if deadlifting/squatting with it is worth my time.

Have never used in all my years of lifting but have always thought about trying

Took a few more days off cause ankle and made today my first day back. Nothing special just sevens at 50-60% squat and bench, deadlift 80ish% for 5 and rdls

Lol pulled a chill 475 today after 455 triple. Feeling good and followed with front squat, deadhang pull-up superset

Nice

When are you planning on competing next?