look at the widespread killing of livestock

just like in Zimbabwe kind of deal

the most thorough analysis i've seen comes from mark tauger which iirc estimates that around 75% of the harvest shortfall stemmed from natural causes

they got rid of the people who knew how to farm

stalin saw that as an act of war during a famine

boom, famine

People don't care about fields they don't own as much. There's so many accounts of this

zimbabwe isn't quite the same though

@fvriovs thats not how the famine occured

in zimbabwe they gave farms to people who had no farming experience

So it's exactly the same

in the ussr they just put them under the joint management of peasants and the state

no it's not the same

Zimbabwe had a famine because they kicked the white farmers out

Yeah that seems to be the case

you could argue that the peasants didn't know how to manage the farm or didn't have the proper incentives in place

but obviously they had farming experience

@ubermensch its weird how china has been racked with massive famines regularly since prehistoric times then after mao , one last famine and thrn they stopped hmmm

since they were peasants

And I'm sure the black people working on the farms in Zimbabwe knew how to use a plough

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/678531385123667998/680163595409293379/Capitalism.jpg

doesn't mean they can run the farm

China is currently the manager of a highly productive capitalism in their country

no they didn't have farming experience

who would win:
>> communist country
>> one virus

afaik

I mean

It’s been that way since 1977

@BabaBooey there haven't had consecutive famines since prehistoric times, you DO know that, right? There's generally a long period of time between two famines....

Same with Vietnam

there's a video of a white guy returning to Zimbabwe and his former farm-staff are all cheering

did farmers in zimbabwe slaughter millions of livestock as a protest ?

and they're all black

>Be Stalin
>see kulaks withholding food as act of war
>deport kulaks to Siberia
>food production goes down
>see poor farmers withholding sowing grain as act of war
>declare the farmers kulaks
>deport and shoot them
>famine accrues
>surprised pikachu face

@johl kohl thats not how the famine occured

is there any evidence that it was common for actualy peasants to be considered kulaks

It's one of the reasons

they weere also hoarding grain to sell to starving people

what was not an act of war to stalin?

and slaughtering livestock in protest

only a few thousand kulaks at most were directly executed

bread speculators

Ukraine was the breadbasket of Europe

You don't go from that to about 8 million deaths because of bad weather that just coincidentally happens to occur at around the same time the farm-managers are killed or driven out and the farms placed under 'collective' management, which seems to be a term for incompetent management

They slaughtered livestock, because that was the only food they had left

I bet he shot his own farts because it was an act of war on his nose

Then they ate cats

And dogs

stalin was retarded

Then mud

the ukraine can produce a lot of food but it can also produce very little

bulgaria is the breadbasket of europe

Only a few thousand?

ukraine is a very volatile place to grow crops

All while Stalin was exporting grain

the eastern european region has the highest yield variability of any major grain producing region in the world with the ukraine having the highest yield variability in that region

let's praise communism

Between 1917 to 1933 the estimates of Kulaks killed were 530,000 to 5,000,000

that means the amount of grain it produces fluctuates a lot

@fvriovs source?

what estimates are these

our groroius reader

mao peezdong

The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine - Robert Conquest (1986)

Save us oh based communism

well sure uber, but it's still not quite the same as zimbabwe

how did conquest come to that estimate though

Don't be commiephobic, breathe it in, anon

How'd you get a few thousand

Conquest's are the higher end

Don't worry, it's just a flu

Census made by soviets in 1933 showed 8 million people less, than before famines and dekulakisation

i'm basing it off of the archives regarding executions carried out by the nkvd that were made available for public viewing after the fall of the ussr

the lower estimations are about 500,000

Yeah I don't believe for one second that the archives were fully disclosed

well i mean

If you do you're really fucking naive

@Death in June such as official soviet archives?

it's not like they're exactly flattering

Because I'd take official soviet sources with a couple grains of salt

i mean they show the nkvd carried out like 700k executions or something

@Death in June yep checks out

i don't really see why they would downplay dekulakization but not yezhovschchina

>> kill all the competent people because you are afraid of smarts
>> set people you trust who are worthless in that trade
>> see everything collapse
was not real communism bro

mccarthyist source for communist "body counts"

hmmm

Also i don't know why people don't call mass execution of Poles under Stalin a genocide. He literally said he wants every Pole killed

Nigga Breathe The Communism In

It is so fucking competent

@BabaBooey You act as if Kulak bread was the only source of food.

You do know there are animals in the woods right?

Oh and berries, like blue berries growing in the wild as well?

breathe it in full lungs

Praise mao while you coof

COOOF motherfucker

I'm not saying the US has never lied or covered anything up

but there's something ironic about people defending a state with an addiction for lying accusing everyone else of being untruthful

leave it to fucking commie to kill journalists and doctors that inform about the plague...

he gets his kill count from a guy who was working with the government to take down suspected communists😂

i don't see why this would a be a lie in this circumstance

like the archives show that in the late 30's the nkvd carried out around 650k executions

the idea that only a few thousand kulaks were killed is fucking laughable and I don't believe it for a moment

Sucxh grorious gommunesm

why would that be left in but figures regarding dekulakization be tampered with?

that seems strange

@fvriovs because youve swallowed alot of anti ussr prop

Get in the van wagie

People i like the most are communist who complain about western propaganda, but then state, that there was no drug use in USSR unironically

you were programmed to think that wat

Sure

the communist is lecturing me on indoctrination

@johl kohl people also claim there was no prostitution in the ussr

so what

Ah yes, tell the people from USSR how it was not real USSR

some people are dumb

like you

nigga you retarded

It's funny seeing such hypocrisy

No communist country was ever competent.

Communists never cease to amaze me

@fvriovs i mean keep getting uour info on the ussr from a rabid gov snitching mccarthyist

i don't think anybody here has said that there was no drug use in the ussr

They will always fuckup and fuckup while trying to fix it

Communism is impossible, and the peddlers of it are but scam artists

Idk man, we can get into the weeds of what happened in Ukraine and Poland. But when I step back, I see what America was like in the 1945 to 1960. It was pretty nice, I see America as being pretty nice to live in. And then I see that no communist nation exists anymore

McCarthy wasn't wrong, retard

I don't really care what you think of the info I'm using Baba

Except like Venezuela

I don't expect you to care

So I say “yeah probably not...”

you will lie until you die to defend communism

well venezuela is a poor example

it'd be easier just to have you killed

cuba would be better

@snake I can't wait until the Wuhan Coronavirus gets into Venezuela NGL....

@fvriovs im not the only one in here who is calling you out

"Nature"

Cuba is a shithole, while Castro family has 900 million dollars

The fact that the United States outlived communism’s entire life cycle just tells me what I need to know

really that's what you've got?

"more than one person objects to you so ha!"

to be fair the ussr was always fighting an uphill battle

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/6Y1pw6wTGT9dwNUgaecbgSlxx9_gfgNKYNFLGTd0g7o/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/229555166016176130/663362426846052372/BDJIHKDGGDG.mp4

ussr was the longest running pyramid scheme

@fvriovs what im saying is your a boot licking drone who will eat the shit of mccarythists every chance

@Uksio And Baba here is at the bottom of the Pyramid

Baba, you're a bootlicking communist

How come a superior system, that is supposed to replace capitalism has to fight an uphill battle?

I think the closest any societies ever got to working state top-down economics would be the bronze age states

because the russian empire was far less developed than the west

@BabaBooey Nah, we just like being able to own property. It's pretty nice actually.

and the states it took into its reach were less developed

ANd how come revolution didn't happen in the west?

@Death in June theyre going to hit you with that logic

I find it funny that the system that was supposed to replace capitalism took hold in feudal Russia and Imperial China

Marx said it will

totally will ignore the historical material conditions

@BabaBooey I don't want to share my property with the proletariat. The proletariat can die for all I care. Wouldn't even piss on the proletariat if they were on fire.

well i mean i'm not a marxist so that doesn't matter to me

Now I’m not a libertarian, I’m a economic nationalist, populist. The resources of the nation should benefit the workers and people. Closed borders, protectionism etc

Truth be told my arguments about death count are broadly surface-level

people die boo hoo

i just reject communism philosophically

>Fascism is left-wing on a political compass

fuck equality

@snake so you support the dprk?

I refuse to share my property with a lazy cunt that does nothing but mooches off welfare

Meh

of course it is loremaster

I don’t care about the DPRK tbh

Get a fucking job, you'll have money too

on the meme compass the left vs right scale is largely a measure of economic liberalism

the less economically liberal the more left

fascism is not a particularly economically liberal ideology

Fascism is honest socialism

Monarchists are economically liberal?

If nazis are right wing, nazbols are the centrists

@johl kohl screen shotted

I think you mean "the farther from the center" if anything

thats going in my cringe comp

From what I've read fascism was tolerant of private enterprise so long as it served the nation,

but it's difficult to evaluate because different fascistic states have had different economic policies

fascism doesn't seem all that concerned with a concrete economic policy

well monarchists can theoretically be anything i suppose

Yea I’d say economic nationalism, protectionism, pro workers unions, you get the Shabang

but monarchies tend to be less economically liberal than liberal states but more than fascist ones

sounds like the dprk

I like Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon’s views on the economy

mostly they seem to adopt whatever it is that will work best given the situation

fascism is totalitarian

Well congrats to the DPRK

that means that the economy must be brought into the orbit of the state

Must be cool

so Liberal states are really fucking far-right?

if it's not, it's not totalitarian

left and right on the political compass don't mean what the terms traditionally meant

totalitarians are useless

No that’s Neo feudalism @SPOOKY Phil, Ruler of Heck

totalitarian regines are as smart as one person, and that person is usually just a tyrant, not particularly smart one

But yeah, over all the free market is a good thing

Just don’t be autistic and follow every single rule to T

@snake yet youre supposedly an anti capitalist?

I’m not anti capitalist

A Communist has been spotted in Chilli
Hay
Build the Helicopter
Load the Communist on it
And give him a free helicopter ride out to sea

I’m literally a centrist

ethno nat centrist?

<:Thonkery:422492171896356865>

totalitarianism isn't necessarily autocratic

I like the progressive era America

it is

Economic centrist

Private property is the first prerequisite for economic prosperity

@snake Centrist for Bababooey is Far-Left for everybody else, remember? <:pepelaugh:544857300179877898>

so a liberal

well fascist italy was totalitarian but it wasn't an autocracy so

I'm sort of in a bizarre economic position

I support a generally free market but corporations shouldn't be able to profit from the expense of the nation or its people

like, depressing wages and excessive outsourcing and shit

@SPOOKY Phil, Ruler of Heck yeah that’s right

totalitarianism just refers to all aspects of society being brought into the orbit of the state

totalitarianism can be ruled by an oligarchy or aristocratic bunch (like communist party), but there is always one that crawls to the top: the CEO of starvation

Fuck let me adjust my cross hairs @SPOOKY Phil, Ruler of Heck

yeah right

@fvriovs thats a self contradictory statement

when was there a famine in italy?

even italy's colonies did better than britain's

The prolerariat are basically like african niggers: breeding like rats without a thought or care about how they will be able to support their 7-8 children.

The proletariat kind of brought the wealth inequality onto themselves.

Corporations should be brought to heel to benefit the nation

churchill left bangladesh to starve while ethiopia prospered under italian governance

It's no more contradictory than saying a free market requires the break-up of monopolies

another position I hold

A Bababooey has been spotted on a Discord Server saying how communism is great
Hey
Collect the evidence
Call the Moderators
And Yeet him off the server

you support the free market but corporations shouldnt be able to profit off the people? <:Thonkos:575776085866840064>

authoritarianism does not work. It is not sustainable.

**Alfani, Guido; Mocarelli, Luca; Strangio, Donatella (January 2016). "Italian Famines: An overview (ca. 1250-1810)". Dondena Centre, Bocconi University.**

I’m cool with corporations as long as it benefits the nation

when you have free competition someone eventually wins

A corporation is simply a economic collective body of people

shocker i know

corporations will sell you for organs if the state won't protecc you from that

that's why the game should be kept going

the problem with liberal corporatism is that the corporate form is only extended to capital

because we don't want a winner

corporationsare not moral actors, they are machines to make moni

@fvriovs then you dont want a free market

i would be in favor of expanding corporate representation as much as possible

Well China and Vietnam show us that we don’t need democracy or republics to have capitalism and benefit

@ubermensch do you like monopolies?

i like a game of monopoly

If the proletariat didn't breed so fucking much, they'd make the value of their labour more valuable and force the employers to compete over who can offer the highest salaries.

But instead, proletarians who don't even have two cents to rub together or even a home of their own decides to fuck without condoms lile there's no tomorrow and give birth to 15 children they can't even feed.

@BabaBooey perhaps not, I have more to read on it.

I believe that people should be entirely free to set up an enterprise. I support small, local businesses instead of monopolies who sell at a loss to run them out of business, outsource jobs to cheap foreign labour, or worse still import the cheap foreign labour to depress native wages.

Yeah someone wins, that’s why you reset the game

year is 2040, disney owns virtually everything


uber : LMAO YOU THINK THIS A PROBLEM JUST BECAUSE THEY WON

Rofl

the proletariat are an essential component of the nation

If that doesn't fall into free market then I don't support a free market. If it does then I do.

Those are my positions. How you define them doesn't matter to me.