#general-chat (Discord ID: 604650578320293928) in Blue Politics, page 5688
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right so it's still abortion
you don't kill criminals if you can help it
why not kill criminals?
@Probably Tim tim..... <:flusteredd:602929240027037735> why.... why are you... why are you pinkie now? <:flusterr:648793648942546957>
because lots of them can be reformed
let their victims pay taxes for their confinement?
@Full Flush LMAO if the mother will die and she aborts the pregnancy to preserve her life, is that unjustifiable?
why not kill mothers who want to abort their children
Utilitarianism sure is a strange ideology
The argument being made was, well it happens so just let it happen. Its using the same logic applying it to other things
@Reetveter because our judicial system is not perfect, and innocent men will die.
@يا قمر بني هاشم in that case it's literally less of a percent of all abortions
if we dont, innocent men pay for the life of the man who murdered their family
Jordan gave us a nice link from 2000
most abortions that happen are wrong.
let's not pretend most abortions are about rape cases
Hi everyone! Interesting dialogue going on
46% of abortions are people being stupid
why would anyone trust a survey
Better to let 100 guilty men free than to take the life of one innocent one
53% doing the right then and getting screwed anyway
Less than 1% of abortions happen because of rape
I just have a hard time trusting any conservative takes on abortion, especially when most are party-line voters that will support anti-abortion bills even if they end up restricting access to preventionary pregnancy methods, closing womens clinics and resulting in more and more poor and underage women getting pregnant and giving birth to children they can't care for.
surveys and polls are unreliable
if you have sex and the condom breaks you get a mornign after pill, im ok with "abrtion" at that point
after a couple weeks
Again it just seems like for most its a political stakes game
that thign is clearly a creature
>muh conservatives boogeyman
but literally after a couple of weeks its a fetus
and you shouldve gotten that pill ages ago
not even technically a baby
where do you draw the line
thats the difference wbetween a feutus and a baby?
what's the exact date at which it gains human rights for you
and a lot of people don't realize that they are pregnant the next few weeks
The line is drawn at conception, obviously.
@SimaYi I live in a state where womens clinic were shut down en masse and you had to travel across state line to get birth control, nothing about that is ideal for anyone
2 months because of ensoulment imo
birth control is unhealthy anyways
but shouldn't the woman have her own rights first?
you shouldnt be taking it en mass
I don't live in the usa, I live in a country with an actual federal government that has enough authority
if the condom breaks, you get a mornign after pill, if you dotn and get pregnant but you dont want ti you shouldve taken the pill stupid
@soooooo when does anyone have the right to take the life of another person
Outside of self defense
Right of life is the most important right, more important than the right to kill your children.
how do you know the condom breaks
Bernie's coming for you
Until the end of the first trimester, considering it a human with full rights is stupid. At 6 weeks a fetus has a brain similar to that of a shrimp. Your computer is literally more complex than the fetus.
if its a tiny hole
No brain=no life?
idk im a virgin yay
@SimaYi Then youre missing most of the context for why it matters here, republican legislation against abortion here doubles as a method of eliminating womens clinics that provide birth control and pre-natal care to low-income couples.
I mean I agree with the general gist of this debate
women aren't able to make hard choices
Well, whoever uses a oil based lubricant on a latex condom is a retard.
Brain complexity isnt what makes someone alive or not
@SimaYi Nothing of value is lost if it doesn’t have a human brain and it doesn’t have experience.
it kinda does
Why does it having a brain or not matter?
a heart stopping doesn't mean that someone is dead
@soooooo Contraceptives are not 100% effective. This is readily available knowledge in any developed country. When you have sex, you are taking that risk of conception, even if you are using a contraceptive.
@fuck12moredeadcops You should tell that to the mother of a kid born like that
I mean that women aren't able to make rational choices about important things
because its not a human
I don't think that
I do think womens clinics should also offer low-cost vasectomies to males that dont have/cant afford insurance
@SimaYi Thats an entirely different situation than an unborn clump of organic matter.
Its not a clump bro..
A blastocyst is literally a clump of unformed cells
I am a woman
Life has got to start somewhere
Yeah but that clump isn’t born
so excuse me
well stop lying to yourself
unformed tissues* rather
It is the beginning of life for one of the most complex organisms
it might not be capable of thought yet, but it will be
abortion is prevention of human life
it might not be direct murder but voluntary manslaughter for sure
Life does start somewhere, but life which we equally value as human life isn’t before the first trimester
how i cant make 'rational' and 'big' decisions?
So killing the fetus of a 9 month pregnant woman is ok?
hey, look I'm just looking out for you
what decisions can I not make about my body
it could be dangerous if you overestimate yourself
but don't i get a say about my body?
which is a shame
Life starts at conception
I base it on the nervous sytem, after embryonic stage a fetus can feel pain and have a neurological response to it, I deem that as killing
It's not really your body
you prevent children from making stupid decisions as well
But you arent "killing" a blastocyst, it doesnt feel
It's a different human
the child survives off of me
so why not take care of women too
if i die, it dies too
It doesnt matter after it feels or not
women need care too
I assure you 6 month fetuses don't feel either
Nor do people in coma
Artificial wombs pls
yeah that'd be good
and I can die because people don't let me make my own decisions about my body
then people could fuck all they want without having to worry about kids
look I don't get why the mother should even decide things like that
because its her body
@يا قمر بني هاشم About 18 weeks before the nervous sytem is really formed to a level that they "feel" pain like we would
I think that point someone made earlier about ensoulment around 2 months into the pregnancy makes more sense. I wouldn’t say his reasoning is materially sound, but it’s developed to the point it could live outside of the mother, it’s no longer just going to be reabsorbed naturally by the mother if there is a complication, it’s responding to complex stimuli and it’s brain patterns start to reflect the brain patterns of an infant. @SimaYi
To eliminate child birth?
None of this is backed up by anything, or is logically consistent at all. Any argument for 2 months or whatever I just as weak as one for 6 months, because its all based on arbitrary assumptions.
Like would it grow outside the womb?
It doesnt kill the child if it's in an artificial womb
look honey, your body would be better kept in the hands of a good, responsible man
who can guide you
It is its own body with its own rights guaranteed by the constitution @soooooo
Yes it grows in an (artificial) womb
Good thing I survived abortion
Or rather womb extraction?
isn't it the man's decision as well to have the baby?
Separate from the womans body
you're letting his child die
On its own
It shouldn't be neither the man or the woman's decision
yes it is important to talk to the father however it is the mothers decision in the end
It has its own genetic code and is a unique person, but because it doesnt have a heart or something people think its okay to kill it.
you're actively killing a man's son
Men typically get 0 say in abortion talks
Like both parents should talk about it
That's playing with some easily manipulated processes. Imagine it being used in a more nefarious way. @Jordan Philips Cockram
Men don't have much of a say at all in the west except for some old republicans
It shouldnt be an easy choice for anyone
why are so many women getting pregnant without wanting children anywas
@Hugh No it isn’t. After 2 months the first trimester is over. Like I said it can respond to complex stimuli, it’s brain patterns are reflecting the brain patterns of an infant, and they’re not just going to be reabsorbed naturally by the mother’s body if there is a complication
@Bungle when the mother will die? It seems to be pretty easy.
the amount of abortions a year is probably extremely low relative to the population
you havnt said why any of this matters
Gotta agree with the dems on this topic, kids need to be taught about sex
@يا قمر بني هاشم If the mother wants that child and planned it, that choice can still be hard
Here are some scientific facts to mull over. 12 hours. After fertilization, the packets of DNA from male and female — the pronuclei — approach, merge, and the intermingling chromosomes pair and part, as the first mitotic division looms. A new human genome forms. Following that first division, some genes from the new genome are accessed to make proteins, but maternal transcripts still dominate development.
cant they close their legs or something
lack of sex ed?
China using it for over population, if we can actually perfect this they could grow their population at an immense rate.
people should know at some point
@Satan they wouldn't be allowed to harm the child in the womb, theres no difference from the nefarious ways a woman does it to a child when she drinks while giving birth
wasnt sex ed invented to make casual sex more widespread tho
2016 - 623k <:pepekarlmarkx:647533486281981962> that's kind of a lot
especially when the jew exposes kids to porn at 14 already
I'm saying using it more as a tool
wow apparently now women can't pleasure themselves
there should be plenty knowledge out there about sex
I mean you're all recoiling like it's something impossible
but the woman can say no
they're kinda dumb
but not that dumb
@Full Flush That's a problem, I won't lie. But I'd rather that than abortions everywhere. Life relativists are coming in full vogue these days
quick, lemme close my legs so if you cum in me, I can't get preggers
@Full Flush No it was a response to high rates of teen pregnancy because people didn’t know how to use contraceptives
It's pretty hypothetical though
@soooooo nobody is stopping them. But if you make a baby on accident, dont kill it.
coronas stock is going down
Sex makes babies. If you dont want to take that risk dont have sex.
@Full Flush amongst other things like stopping spreading of STDs, unplanned pregnancies etc
They just want them to pull out real quick
Even with contraception the risk is still present.
And the type of sex Ed that helps the most is the type which actually teaches you contraceptive measures and doesn’t just push abstinence
>Like I said it can respond to complex stimuli
bruh this is the most arbitrary thing Ive ever heard
do you think there is just one day when the baby can all of a sudden do this or something?
I think teaching strong pull-out game is important
Men and women vary in IQ, both have the ability to conquer the other in that field.
Massively underrated skill
Mens and womens intelligence isnt the same though
And if you put the limit at 2 months youd still be killing some babys who are more developed than the average 2 month fetus
women aren't creative
i hate to disagree
darling, it's nothing personal
New can of worms just opened
you're great at talking
@Hugh Like does it respond to and experience pain the way a human does. A 3 week old fetus doesn’t. A 2 month old fetus does. That’s something we can measure by looking at brain activity and a substantial difference between the former and the latter
Palestina is the legal owner of the Jordan valley
*incels start clawing out from their caves*
but think about how many great historical figures were women
You owe me sex
Israel is illegally occupying it
all those great minds
incels are angry for not getting laid
@fuck12moredeadcops Why do you think that is what makes someone alive or not?
we are simply stating facts