#general-chat (Discord ID: 604650578320293928) in Blue Politics, page 5688


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2020-02-05 22:32:48 UTC

right so it's still abortion

you don't kill criminals if you can help it

2020-02-05 22:33:08 UTC

why not kill criminals?

@Probably Tim tim..... <:flusteredd:602929240027037735> why.... why are you... why are you pinkie now? <:flusterr:648793648942546957>

because lots of them can be reformed

2020-02-05 22:33:18 UTC

let their victims pay taxes for their confinement?

@Full Flush LMAO if the mother will die and she aborts the pregnancy to preserve her life, is that unjustifiable?

2020-02-05 22:33:25 UTC

why not kill mothers who want to abort their children

2020-02-05 22:33:31 UTC

Utilitarianism sure is a strange ideology

2020-02-05 22:33:31 UTC

The argument being made was, well it happens so just let it happen. Its using the same logic applying it to other things

2020-02-05 22:33:37 UTC

oh

2020-02-05 22:33:39 UTC

@Reetveter because our judicial system is not perfect, and innocent men will die.

2020-02-05 22:33:42 UTC

@ูŠุง ู‚ู…ุฑ ุจู†ูŠ ู‡ุงุดู… in that case it's literally less of a percent of all abortions

2020-02-05 22:33:56 UTC

if we dont, innocent men pay for the life of the man who murdered their family

Jordan gave us a nice link from 2000

most abortions that happen are wrong.

2020-02-05 22:34:06 UTC

let's not pretend most abortions are about rape cases

2020-02-05 22:34:15 UTC

Hi everyone! Interesting dialogue going on

46% of abortions are people being stupid

2020-02-05 22:34:21 UTC

why would anyone trust a survey

2020-02-05 22:34:25 UTC

Better to let 100 guilty men free than to take the life of one innocent one

53% doing the right then and getting screwed anyway

2020-02-05 22:34:30 UTC

Less than 1% of abortions happen because of rape

2020-02-05 22:34:37 UTC

I just have a hard time trusting any conservative takes on abortion, especially when most are party-line voters that will support anti-abortion bills even if they end up restricting access to preventionary pregnancy methods, closing womens clinics and resulting in more and more poor and underage women getting pregnant and giving birth to children they can't care for.

2020-02-05 22:34:43 UTC

surveys and polls are unreliable

2020-02-05 22:34:52 UTC

if you have sex and the condom breaks you get a mornign after pill, im ok with "abrtion" at that point

2020-02-05 22:34:58 UTC

but afterwards

2020-02-05 22:35:01 UTC

after a couple weeks

2020-02-05 22:35:01 UTC

Again it just seems like for most its a political stakes game

2020-02-05 22:35:07 UTC

that thign is clearly a creature

2020-02-05 22:35:11 UTC

>muh conservatives boogeyman

2020-02-05 22:35:12 UTC

but literally after a couple of weeks its a fetus

2020-02-05 22:35:18 UTC

and you shouldve gotten that pill ages ago

2020-02-05 22:35:19 UTC

not even technically a baby

2020-02-05 22:35:28 UTC

where do you draw the line

2020-02-05 22:35:35 UTC

thats the difference wbetween a feutus and a baby?

2020-02-05 22:35:38 UTC

what's the exact date at which it gains human rights for you

2020-02-05 22:35:39 UTC

and a lot of people don't realize that they are pregnant the next few weeks

2020-02-05 22:35:42 UTC

The line is drawn at conception, obviously.

2020-02-05 22:35:53 UTC

@SimaYi I live in a state where womens clinic were shut down en masse and you had to travel across state line to get birth control, nothing about that is ideal for anyone

2 months because of ensoulment imo

2020-02-05 22:36:09 UTC

birth control is unhealthy anyways

first trimester

2020-02-05 22:36:14 UTC

but shouldn't the woman have her own rights first?

2020-02-05 22:36:18 UTC

you shouldnt be taking it en mass

2020-02-05 22:36:20 UTC

I don't live in the usa, I live in a country with an actual federal government that has enough authority

2020-02-05 22:36:40 UTC

if the condom breaks, you get a mornign after pill, if you dotn and get pregnant but you dont want ti you shouldve taken the pill stupid

2020-02-05 22:36:41 UTC

@soooooo when does anyone have the right to take the life of another person

2020-02-05 22:36:47 UTC

Outside of self defense

2020-02-05 22:36:49 UTC

Right of life is the most important right, more important than the right to kill your children.

2020-02-05 22:36:49 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/604650578320293928/674745275138703391/image0.gif

2020-02-05 22:37:00 UTC

how do you know the condom breaks

2020-02-05 22:37:07 UTC

you check?

2020-02-05 22:37:12 UTC

Bernie's coming for you

2020-02-05 22:37:17 UTC

Until the end of the first trimester, considering it a human with full rights is stupid. At 6 weeks a fetus has a brain similar to that of a shrimp. Your computer is literally more complex than the fetus.

2020-02-05 22:37:17 UTC

if its a tiny hole

2020-02-05 22:37:33 UTC

No brain=no life?

2020-02-05 22:37:37 UTC

idk im a virgin yay

2020-02-05 22:37:38 UTC

@SimaYi Then youre missing most of the context for why it matters here, republican legislation against abortion here doubles as a method of eliminating womens clinics that provide birth control and pre-natal care to low-income couples.

2020-02-05 22:37:38 UTC

I mean I agree with the general gist of this debate

2020-02-05 22:37:45 UTC

women aren't able to make hard choices

Well, whoever uses a oil based lubricant on a latex condom is a retard.

2020-02-05 22:38:04 UTC

Brain complexity isnt what makes someone alive or not

2020-02-05 22:38:09 UTC

@SimaYi Nothing of value is lost if it doesnโ€™t have a human brain and it doesnโ€™t have experience.

2020-02-05 22:38:25 UTC

@Full Flush what do you mean by that

2020-02-05 22:38:26 UTC

Why does it having a brain or not matter?

a heart stopping doesn't mean that someone is dead

2020-02-05 22:38:40 UTC

@soooooo Contraceptives are not 100% effective. This is readily available knowledge in any developed country. When you have sex, you are taking that risk of conception, even if you are using a contraceptive.

2020-02-05 22:38:40 UTC

@fuck12moredeadcops You should tell that to the mother of a kid born like that

2020-02-05 22:38:47 UTC

Do you care when you kill a fly? @Hugh

2020-02-05 22:38:50 UTC

I mean that women aren't able to make rational choices about important things

2020-02-05 22:38:51 UTC

No

2020-02-05 22:38:55 UTC

because its not a human

@OGKushName trueeeeeee mandatory castration for everyone

2020-02-05 22:39:02 UTC

@Full Flush and why do you think that

2020-02-05 22:39:09 UTC

I don't think that

2020-02-05 22:39:09 UTC

I do think womens clinics should also offer low-cost vasectomies to males that dont have/cant afford insurance

2020-02-05 22:39:10 UTC

@SimaYi Thats an entirely different situation than an unborn clump of organic matter.

2020-02-05 22:39:10 UTC

it's reality

2020-02-05 22:39:18 UTC

@Full Flush what can back this up?

2020-02-05 22:39:18 UTC

>clump

2020-02-05 22:39:20 UTC

๐Ÿ˜

2020-02-05 22:39:21 UTC

please explain

2020-02-05 22:39:23 UTC

Clump

2020-02-05 22:39:26 UTC

@fuck12moredeadcops We are all "clumps" of organic matter

2020-02-05 22:39:29 UTC

Its not a clump bro..

2020-02-05 22:39:34 UTC

@soooooo talk to a woman

2020-02-05 22:39:38 UTC

A blastocyst is literally a clump of unformed cells

2020-02-05 22:39:39 UTC

I am a woman

2020-02-05 22:39:41 UTC

Life has got to start somewhere

2020-02-05 22:39:43 UTC

Yeah but that clump isnโ€™t born

2020-02-05 22:39:44 UTC

so excuse me

@Full Flush doesn't seem like you've talked to many

2020-02-05 22:39:47 UTC

well stop lying to yourself

2020-02-05 22:39:51 UTC

about what

2020-02-05 22:39:53 UTC

unformed tissues* rather

2020-02-05 22:39:56 UTC

It is the beginning of life for one of the most complex organisms

2020-02-05 22:39:57 UTC

it might not be capable of thought yet, but it will be
abortion is prevention of human life
it might not be direct murder but voluntary manslaughter for sure

2020-02-05 22:40:02 UTC

Life does start somewhere, but life which we equally value as human life isnโ€™t before the first trimester

2020-02-05 22:40:02 UTC

how i cant make 'rational' and 'big' decisions?

2020-02-05 22:40:06 UTC

So killing the fetus of a 9 month pregnant woman is ok?

2020-02-05 22:40:09 UTC

hey, look I'm just looking out for you

2020-02-05 22:40:12 UTC

No

2020-02-05 22:40:13 UTC

what decisions can I not make about my body

2020-02-05 22:40:16 UTC

it could be dangerous if you overestimate yourself

2020-02-05 22:40:27 UTC

but don't i get a say about my body?

2020-02-05 22:40:32 UTC

you do

2020-02-05 22:40:34 UTC

which is a shame

2020-02-05 22:40:35 UTC

Life starts at conception

2020-02-05 22:40:37 UTC

I base it on the nervous sytem, after embryonic stage a fetus can feel pain and have a neurological response to it, I deem that as killing

2020-02-05 22:40:41 UTC

It's not really your body

2020-02-05 22:40:41 UTC

@soooooo the child is not your body

2020-02-05 22:40:45 UTC

you prevent children from making stupid decisions as well

2020-02-05 22:40:47 UTC

But you arent "killing" a blastocyst, it doesnt feel

2020-02-05 22:40:50 UTC

It's a different human

2020-02-05 22:40:52 UTC

the child survives off of me

2020-02-05 22:40:54 UTC

so why not take care of women too

2020-02-05 22:40:58 UTC

if i die, it dies too

2020-02-05 22:41:00 UTC

It doesnt matter after it feels or not

@Bungle at what point does that happen or occur

2020-02-05 22:41:06 UTC

women need care too

@soooooo but it can die and you still live.

2020-02-05 22:41:09 UTC

I assure you 6 month fetuses don't feel either

2020-02-05 22:41:12 UTC

Nor do people in coma

2020-02-05 22:41:15 UTC

Artificial wombs pls

yeah that'd be good

2020-02-05 22:41:23 UTC
2020-02-05 22:41:29 UTC

and I can die because people don't let me make my own decisions about my body

then people could fuck all they want without having to worry about kids

2020-02-05 22:41:31 UTC

look I don't get why the mother should even decide things like that

2020-02-05 22:41:39 UTC

because its her body

2020-02-05 22:41:42 UTC
2020-02-05 22:41:43 UTC

It's not your body @soooooo

2020-02-05 22:41:49 UTC

@ูŠุง ู‚ู…ุฑ ุจู†ูŠ ู‡ุงุดู… About 18 weeks before the nervous sytem is really formed to a level that they "feel" pain like we would

2020-02-05 22:41:51 UTC

I think that point someone made earlier about ensoulment around 2 months into the pregnancy makes more sense. I wouldnโ€™t say his reasoning is materially sound, but itโ€™s developed to the point it could live outside of the mother, itโ€™s no longer just going to be reabsorbed naturally by the mother if there is a complication, itโ€™s responding to complex stimuli and itโ€™s brain patterns start to reflect the brain patterns of an infant. @SimaYi

2020-02-05 22:41:56 UTC

@Satan cuz it can allow the woman not to carry

2020-02-05 22:41:58 UTC

To eliminate child birth?

2020-02-05 22:42:05 UTC

Huh?

2020-02-05 22:42:05 UTC

@SimaYi and it's yours?

2020-02-05 22:42:13 UTC

No

2020-02-05 22:42:16 UTC

None of this is backed up by anything, or is logically consistent at all. Any argument for 2 months or whatever I just as weak as one for 6 months, because its all based on arbitrary assumptions.

2020-02-05 22:42:17 UTC

Like would it grow outside the womb?

2020-02-05 22:42:17 UTC

It doesnt kill the child if it's in an artificial womb

2020-02-05 22:42:17 UTC

look honey, your body would be better kept in the hands of a good, responsible man

2020-02-05 22:42:18 UTC

@SimaYi why do you get a say about it?

2020-02-05 22:42:19 UTC

@soooooo it's the child's body

2020-02-05 22:42:20 UTC

who can guide you

2020-02-05 22:42:25 UTC

It is its own body with its own rights guaranteed by the constitution @soooooo

2020-02-05 22:42:31 UTC

Yes it grows in an (artificial) womb

2020-02-05 22:42:31 UTC

Good thing I survived abortion

2020-02-05 22:42:34 UTC

Or rather womb extraction?

2020-02-05 22:42:36 UTC

Oh

2020-02-05 22:42:42 UTC

isn't it the man's decision as well to have the baby?

2020-02-05 22:42:48 UTC

Nope

2020-02-05 22:42:50 UTC

Separate from the womans body

2020-02-05 22:42:50 UTC

you're letting his child die

2020-02-05 22:42:52 UTC

On its own

2020-02-05 22:42:58 UTC

It shouldn't be neither the man or the woman's decision

2020-02-05 22:43:02 UTC

yes it is important to talk to the father however it is the mothers decision in the end

2020-02-05 22:43:02 UTC

It has its own genetic code and is a unique person, but because it doesnt have a heart or something people think its okay to kill it.

2020-02-05 22:43:04 UTC

you're actively killing a man's son

Men typically get 0 say in abortion talks

@Reetveter I agree that abortion should be consensual

Like both parents should talk about it

2020-02-05 22:43:29 UTC
2020-02-05 22:43:29 UTC

That's playing with some easily manipulated processes. Imagine it being used in a more nefarious way. @Jordan Philips Cockram

2020-02-05 22:43:34 UTC

Men don't have much of a say at all in the west except for some old republicans

2020-02-05 22:43:39 UTC

It shouldnt be an easy choice for anyone

2020-02-05 22:43:42 UTC

@Satan like what

2020-02-05 22:43:46 UTC

why are so many women getting pregnant without wanting children anywas

2020-02-05 22:43:48 UTC

@Hugh No it isnโ€™t. After 2 months the first trimester is over. Like I said it can respond to complex stimuli, itโ€™s brain patterns are reflecting the brain patterns of an infant, and theyโ€™re not just going to be reabsorbed naturally by the motherโ€™s body if there is a complication

@Bungle when the mother will die? It seems to be pretty easy.

2020-02-05 22:44:02 UTC

@Bungle it shouldn't but it should be an option

2020-02-05 22:44:03 UTC

@Full Flush Lack of sexual education comes in

the amount of abortions a year is probably extremely low relative to the population

2020-02-05 22:44:10 UTC

you havnt said why any of this matters

2020-02-05 22:44:16 UTC

Gotta agree with the dems on this topic, kids need to be taught about sex

2020-02-05 22:44:18 UTC

@ูŠุง ู‚ู…ุฑ ุจู†ูŠ ู‡ุงุดู… If the mother wants that child and planned it, that choice can still be hard

2020-02-05 22:44:20 UTC

Here are some scientific facts to mull over. 12 hours. After fertilization, the packets of DNA from male and female โ€” the pronuclei โ€” approach, merge, and the intermingling chromosomes pair and part, as the first mitotic division looms. A new human genome forms. Following that first division, some genes from the new genome are accessed to make proteins, but maternal transcripts still dominate development.

2020-02-05 22:44:20 UTC

cant they close their legs or something

2020-02-05 22:44:23 UTC

lack of sex ed?

2020-02-05 22:44:26 UTC

@OGKushName that's the right idea

2020-02-05 22:44:26 UTC

China using it for over population, if we can actually perfect this they could grow their population at an immense rate.

2020-02-05 22:44:31 UTC

people should know at some point

2020-02-05 22:44:32 UTC

@Full Flush Don't say that, it's a shitty argument

2020-02-05 22:44:37 UTC

@Satan they wouldn't be allowed to harm the child in the womb, theres no difference from the nefarious ways a woman does it to a child when she drinks while giving birth

2020-02-05 22:44:41 UTC

wasnt sex ed invented to make casual sex more widespread tho

2016 - 623k <:pepekarlmarkx:647533486281981962> that's kind of a lot

2020-02-05 22:44:43 UTC

especially when the jew exposes kids to porn at 14 already

@Full Flush lol yeah just close the entrance

2020-02-05 22:44:51 UTC

I'm saying using it more as a tool

2020-02-05 22:44:56 UTC

wow apparently now women can't pleasure themselves

2020-02-05 22:44:58 UTC

there should be plenty knowledge out there about sex

2020-02-05 22:45:02 UTC

I mean you're all recoiling like it's something impossible

2020-02-05 22:45:07 UTC

but the woman can say no

2020-02-05 22:45:09 UTC

they're kinda dumb

2020-02-05 22:45:11 UTC

but not that dumb

2020-02-05 22:45:16 UTC

@Full Flush That's a problem, I won't lie. But I'd rather that than abortions everywhere. Life relativists are coming in full vogue these days

quick, lemme close my legs so if you cum in me, I can't get preggers

2020-02-05 22:45:18 UTC

@Full Flush No it was a response to high rates of teen pregnancy because people didnโ€™t know how to use contraceptives

2020-02-05 22:45:18 UTC

It's pretty hypothetical though

2020-02-05 22:45:20 UTC

@soooooo nobody is stopping them. But if you make a baby on accident, dont kill it.

2020-02-05 22:45:27 UTC

coronas stock is going down

2020-02-05 22:45:34 UTC

Sex makes babies. If you dont want to take that risk dont have sex.

2020-02-05 22:45:34 UTC

@Full Flush amongst other things like stopping spreading of STDs, unplanned pregnancies etc

2020-02-05 22:45:40 UTC

They just want them to pull out real quick

2020-02-05 22:45:40 UTC

@fuck12moredeadcops Magnus Hirschfeld

2020-02-05 22:45:44 UTC

Even with contraception the risk is still present.

2020-02-05 22:45:47 UTC

And the type of sex Ed that helps the most is the type which actually teaches you contraceptive measures and doesnโ€™t just push abstinence

2020-02-05 22:45:50 UTC

>Like I said it can respond to complex stimuli
bruh this is the most arbitrary thing Ive ever heard
do you think there is just one day when the baby can all of a sudden do this or something?

2020-02-05 22:45:59 UTC

I think teaching strong pull-out game is important

2020-02-05 22:46:03 UTC

Men and women vary in IQ, both have the ability to conquer the other in that field.

2020-02-05 22:46:06 UTC

Massively underrated skill

2020-02-05 22:46:14 UTC

@Bungle mine was awful

2020-02-05 22:46:19 UTC

Mens and womens intelligence isnt the same though

2020-02-05 22:46:20 UTC

And if you put the limit at 2 months youd still be killing some babys who are more developed than the average 2 month fetus

2020-02-05 22:46:22 UTC

women aren't creative

2020-02-05 22:46:30 UTC

i hate to disagree

2020-02-05 22:46:35 UTC

Oof

2020-02-05 22:46:36 UTC

Oh boy

2020-02-05 22:46:38 UTC

Guys stop

2020-02-05 22:46:39 UTC

darling, it's nothing personal

2020-02-05 22:46:45 UTC

New can of worms just opened

2020-02-05 22:46:49 UTC

you're great at talking

2020-02-05 22:46:51 UTC

@Hugh Like does it respond to and experience pain the way a human does. A 3 week old fetus doesnโ€™t. A 2 month old fetus does. Thatโ€™s something we can measure by looking at brain activity and a substantial difference between the former and the latter

2020-02-05 22:46:54 UTC

Palestina is the legal owner of the Jordan valley

2020-02-05 22:46:56 UTC

*incels start clawing out from their caves*

2020-02-05 22:47:09 UTC

@Satan REEEEEEEE

2020-02-05 22:47:10 UTC

but think about how many great historical figures were women

2020-02-05 22:47:12 UTC

You owe me sex

2020-02-05 22:47:14 UTC

Israel is illegally occupying it

2020-02-05 22:47:17 UTC

all those great minds

2020-02-05 22:47:21 UTC

incels are angry for not getting laid

2020-02-05 22:47:24 UTC

@fuck12moredeadcops Why do you think that is what makes someone alive or not?

2020-02-05 22:47:27 UTC

we are simply stating facts

2020-02-05 22:47:28 UTC

@PowerHungryFool <:ZOINKS:645035350950936588>

2020-02-05 22:47:31 UTC

@Full Flush I would argue that.

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