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Discord ID: 634367565304561675


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2019-11-02 16:29:13 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640225916013772817/1572698449707.jpg

2019-11-02 16:29:25 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640225966224048152/81089a9b93bc1cf63a894f22d31e6bf8ac8423b754e5bc221a9f6489602726b0_12.jpg

2019-11-02 16:29:27 UTC

I think Nerth might be a sperg fr.

2019-11-02 16:29:32 UTC

Yup

2019-11-02 16:29:42 UTC

<:powerful:639994936070242315>

2019-11-02 16:29:45 UTC

I asked you how what you're saying solves is/ought

2019-11-02 16:29:49 UTC

and you didn't answer

2019-11-02 16:29:50 UTC

<:spurdo:640003428290134026>

2019-11-02 16:29:51 UTC

you said 'god'

2019-11-02 16:29:52 UTC

ok

2019-11-02 16:29:53 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640226086403178496/1572599079642.jpg

2019-11-02 16:29:56 UTC

I don't know it seems to have come full circle in his argument.

2019-11-02 16:30:00 UTC

that doesn't mean anything to me

2019-11-02 16:30:04 UTC

I tried to define grounding after that to answer the question.

2019-11-02 16:30:23 UTC

That's because you're a mutant Nerth

2019-11-02 16:30:27 UTC

okay, well I don't agree that if your argument is grounded than its true then

2019-11-02 16:30:29 UTC

<:spurdo:640003428290134026>

2019-11-02 16:30:37 UTC

I still am not certain what you mean by grounded

2019-11-02 16:31:02 UTC

can I get a tldr of this "debate"

2019-11-02 16:31:08 UTC

you just said 'its grounded by god'

2019-11-02 16:31:08 UTC

Grounded means that there is something or someone the morality is ground in, enforcing it.

2019-11-02 16:31:25 UTC

GO TO YOUR ROOM

2019-11-02 16:31:26 UTC

"you dont convince me"nanananana im putting my fingers in my ears" - Nerthulas

2019-11-02 16:31:32 UTC

YOU'RE GROUNDED

2019-11-02 16:31:47 UTC

he needs to specify that as DNA lifeforms the matrix he speaks off is a result of genes and that variance even within human pop can lead to variance of perspective but i agree with nerths general points he's making i don't see what the arguments were just going on tangents about stuff

2019-11-02 16:31:48 UTC

>So, grounded is something enforcing or justifying it.

2019-11-02 16:32:06 UTC

<:powerful:639994936070242315>

2019-11-02 16:32:16 UTC

So @Nerthulas are you arguing everything is objective, but our human minds are subjective and therefore morality is decided by subjectivity dispite our obility to quanify the objective world with our senses and record it then make abstract and practical evaluations of that?

2019-11-02 16:32:43 UTC

Its not black and white

2019-11-02 16:32:58 UTC

there is a difference between positive statements about what is true, which describe reality, and statements of preference - when you say grounded, do you mean that it is something which would make statements about preference/normative statements true, descriptors of reality @Hector

2019-11-02 16:32:59 UTC

?

2019-11-02 16:33:06 UTC

We have subjective and objective lived experience

2019-11-02 16:33:43 UTC

I am sorry @Deleted User its gonna be hard to address your because @Nerthulas can't see you

2019-11-02 16:33:44 UTC

if one statement can be true for two people its objective.

2019-11-02 16:34:04 UTC

All you need to disprove his argument is prove that more than one person can share a truth

2019-11-02 16:34:10 UTC

simply more than one.

2019-11-02 16:34:30 UTC

Well of course more that one person can share a truth @Deleted User

2019-11-02 16:34:34 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLdqKIj3-A0

I forgotted, there's good stuff on YT

2019-11-02 16:34:41 UTC

Objective doesn't require universal agreement it requires agreement apart from the individual to more than one.

2019-11-02 16:34:50 UTC

tbh, i behaved like an african my last year of trick-or-treating - 8th grade

2019-11-02 16:35:24 UTC

i was better before that though, i swear

2019-11-02 16:35:30 UTC

@StRexPowerColt I'm saying that the human perspective is the only one which can be taken, that there is no need to refer to a cosmic consciousness to explain the existence of numbers and patters, that reference to our own consciousnesses is the only thing which is required (and the only thing which can be said conclusively) as to why we observe these universal patterns

2019-11-02 16:35:38 UTC

Thus objective can exist and coexist with the subjective.

2019-11-02 16:36:42 UTC

Thats just not true @Nerthulas because if something besides humanity shared its perspective with us then what?

2019-11-02 16:36:47 UTC

I don't think the best way to talk about morality is in terms of 'subjective vs objective' but 'normative vs positive'

2019-11-02 16:37:19 UTC

@StRexPowerColt what do you mean, you mean like animals?

2019-11-02 16:37:33 UTC

Universality is not a necessary trait of objectivism.... It can just be more than one person - there are degrees of objective.

2019-11-02 16:37:48 UTC

the word is used different ways, yeah

2019-11-02 16:38:24 UTC

Yes @Nerthulas or anything sentient that could communicate with us for that matter.

2019-11-02 16:38:35 UTC

<:honkpilled:558686758875824130> <:Gun:639978512207314973> <:AngryNPC:639979462976602133>

2019-11-02 16:39:21 UTC

HERRO

2019-11-02 16:39:23 UTC

<:Banjod:639988401176707112>

2019-11-02 16:39:32 UTC

<:powerful:639994936070242315>

2019-11-02 16:39:32 UTC

ultimately we only have direct access to our own perspective, but we observe other things which we think function more or less like we do, on a continuum from animals to humans - what is the point of bringing this up?

2019-11-02 16:39:38 UTC

<:spurdo:640003428290134026>

2019-11-02 16:39:39 UTC

<:Banjod:639988401176707112> <:Gun:639978512207314973> <:Str3tch:639979203890249758>

2019-11-02 16:39:44 UTC

who's got the webm of the chink shaking at the arcade surrounded by females

2019-11-02 16:39:51 UTC

@Nerthulas busy right now, can we continue this another time?

2019-11-02 16:39:57 UTC

even acknowledging their existence can only be done from your perspective

2019-11-02 16:40:01 UTC

sure, Helton

2019-11-02 16:40:24 UTC

<:slav:640046833200267284>

2019-11-02 16:40:26 UTC

hewwo

2019-11-02 16:40:31 UTC

Do you recognize that other individuals exist and are sentient, as you are @Nerthulas

2019-11-02 16:40:54 UTC

here you go billy

2019-11-02 16:41:09 UTC

any coomers yet_

2019-11-02 16:41:12 UTC

*Tips fedora*

2019-11-02 16:41:46 UTC

tromm

2019-11-02 16:41:49 UTC

<:steflol:561214382181318656>

2019-11-02 16:41:50 UTC

not yet <:towelsweat:552805059042344960>

2019-11-02 16:41:56 UTC

PPl need to understand that objectivity as a term is a a term that exists post conceding the fact that the thing labeled objective is perceived by you

2019-11-02 16:41:57 UTC

how can you lose this fast

2019-11-02 16:41:57 UTC

@StRexPowerColt yes, but you have a privileged perspective, you only have access to knowledge of their existence from your own - take this for instance - a cat can see and to some degree understand a human, but does not have a human perspective or information processing matrix

2019-11-02 16:41:58 UTC

this is just

2019-11-02 16:42:02 UTC

unless sexual emergency

2019-11-02 16:42:04 UTC

discord autism

2019-11-02 16:42:07 UTC

some say the first 3 days or so are the hardest

2019-11-02 16:42:08 UTC

wait, who lost?

2019-11-02 16:42:11 UTC

did somebody lose?

2019-11-02 16:42:12 UTC

I think after the 7 day mark, its easy

2019-11-02 16:42:13 UTC

yo mum is a sexual emergency

2019-11-02 16:42:16 UTC

they are sayin gtrommm lost

2019-11-02 16:42:17 UTC

<:dab:395562678153904128>

2019-11-02 16:42:17 UTC

day 5 is the hardest for me

2019-11-02 16:42:21 UTC

i did not lose

2019-11-02 16:42:22 UTC

I always fail on day 5

2019-11-02 16:42:23 UTC

of nofap

2019-11-02 16:42:23 UTC

day 2

2019-11-02 16:42:26 UTC

I'm on day 3

2019-11-02 16:42:27 UTC

going strong

2019-11-02 16:42:30 UTC

I started one day early

2019-11-02 16:42:32 UTC

yes, once we get over the first week, we will be good

2019-11-02 16:42:32 UTC

almost did it this morning

2019-11-02 16:42:39 UTC

day 2 gang

2019-11-02 16:42:40 UTC

prager jew

2019-11-02 16:42:45 UTC

1 month is possible for you

2019-11-02 16:43:07 UTC

it's a far str3tch ( <:vargsmug:639999539192922123> ) but it' spossible

2019-11-02 16:43:20 UTC

heh

2019-11-02 16:43:25 UTC

funni banjod

2019-11-02 16:43:41 UTC

I use my high verbal iq allt he time for word jokings

2019-11-02 16:43:58 UTC

I dl that asian vid and called it ChadChong

2019-11-02 16:44:37 UTC

did people remove the jew moji?

2019-11-02 16:44:47 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640229830142590986/a5d158cda680d78c97655ce5eab65c0db9de6c2f7287549ff4133dd4fa81dada_1.jpg2.jpg

2019-11-02 16:44:47 UTC

@Nerthulas u agree>

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640229834378969128/unknown.png

2019-11-02 16:44:49 UTC

I was gonna post it, but can't find

2019-11-02 16:44:49 UTC

?

2019-11-02 16:44:57 UTC

โ“

2019-11-02 16:45:09 UTC

<:kraut:389881471881576448>

2019-11-02 16:45:10 UTC

this

2019-11-02 16:45:16 UTC

<:spurdo:640003428290134026>

2019-11-02 16:45:27 UTC

@Nerthulas thanks for tagging me

2019-11-02 16:45:34 UTC

yw

2019-11-02 16:45:41 UTC

<:mlady:389497741769703424>

2019-11-02 16:45:43 UTC

did u read my tag

2019-11-02 16:45:44 UTC

nerth

2019-11-02 16:45:45 UTC

ffs

2019-11-02 16:45:47 UTC

do u agree

2019-11-02 16:46:14 UTC

yeah I agree, but at least Romulus was using it in a different way

2019-11-02 16:46:21 UTC

he was using it to be intersubjective

2019-11-02 16:46:26 UTC

but he was opening up like

2019-11-02 16:46:34 UTC

a third argument which was totally tangential

2019-11-02 16:46:55 UTC

ye he does that

2019-11-02 16:46:58 UTC

idk why

2019-11-02 16:46:58 UTC

I don't really even understand which one he was trying to respond to

2019-11-02 16:47:24 UTC

i think it's like because he's trying to tie it into some other thing he believes

2019-11-02 16:47:50 UTC

@Nerthulas Okay, you think that morality is subjective to the cats own perferences. Well I disagree, I think morality (assuming the cat is sentient and not just a flesh and bone robot ie Golem) for the cat would but subject to the limitations of what the cat is potentially capable of (at least in terms judging it) and the a human would be subject to morality as best as one is potentially capable of, but that morality is not subjective.

2019-11-02 16:48:04 UTC

YASSSSS

2019-11-02 16:48:31 UTC

wait how is the morality not subjective you didn't say why?

2019-11-02 16:48:47 UTC

well we can describe the cat's preferences in positive (descriptive/'objective') terms, but the preferences themselves are normative (subjective)

2019-11-02 16:49:07 UTC

if it's coming from these 2 sentient entities it's subjective to each

2019-11-02 16:49:11 UTC

it could be positive/objective that the cat's preferences exist, and that they have x consequences

2019-11-02 16:49:13 UTC

<:powerful:639994936070242315>

2019-11-02 16:49:23 UTC

but the preference *itself* is normative/subjective

2019-11-02 16:49:26 UTC

Sure, but I think ones preferences (Pathos, Feelings) have nothing to do wtih morality.

2019-11-02 16:49:38 UTC

acts act on morality, but they are not capable of really using it

2019-11-02 16:49:45 UTC

animals*

2019-11-02 16:49:45 UTC

I think they're the same thing to different degrees

2019-11-02 16:49:47 UTC

very tired

2019-11-02 16:49:58 UTC

I think I meant cats

2019-11-02 16:50:30 UTC

can't even remember what I thought 10 seconds ago

2019-11-02 16:50:34 UTC

great sign

2019-11-02 16:53:01 UTC

i don't agree banjod, morality is subjective and what constitutes morality varies between genetic groups, morality is merely the accumulation of positive behaviors stemming from genes allowing the group to exist in a cohesive fashion, why? because it is superior for the survival of the group and it's members

2019-11-02 16:53:38 UTC

The cat essentially has its own morality that is not like our own and we can say it is inferior

2019-11-02 16:53:55 UTC

I see what you are saying @Nerthulas but I disagree. My argument for why I disagree has to do with historical proof of a "God", but I don't have the kinda time for that right now, what say we reconvein if you wanna hear that some other time. I will be on later.

2019-11-02 16:54:07 UTC

ok, sure

2019-11-02 16:54:17 UTC

guys just accept

2019-11-02 16:54:24 UTC

Disscussing it in voice chat later would make my life easier.

2019-11-02 16:54:25 UTC

i am right you are wrong 24/7

2019-11-02 16:54:49 UTC

this conversation is still going, dayum

2019-11-02 16:55:15 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640232468493893638/d5e4a279f825d29549db65f83701d101_w200.gif

2019-11-02 16:57:05 UTC

why would you do that to a cat :(

2019-11-02 16:57:26 UTC

cats will eat you when you die

2019-11-02 16:57:51 UTC
2019-11-02 16:58:01 UTC

@Deleted User perfect for my ECOFASH empire

2019-11-02 16:58:03 UTC

really

2019-11-02 16:58:07 UTC

<:cot:639989713599594526> torture

2019-11-02 16:58:12 UTC

๐Ÿ˜ฆ

2019-11-02 16:58:14 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640233219987603486/unknown.png

2019-11-02 16:58:44 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640233344474415114/2019-10-29.png

2019-11-02 16:58:47 UTC

Cat eat me so i torture cat guurrr

2019-11-02 16:58:52 UTC

<:kekboi:417880491182653450>

2019-11-02 16:59:09 UTC

somehow this man looks familiar

2019-11-02 16:59:32 UTC

prob the face u see when ur phone goes on lock and ur taking a shit

2019-11-02 17:00:46 UTC

Under the right circumstances any carnivorous (or omnivorous) animal will eat a human.

2019-11-02 17:00:54 UTC

So technically....so would your dog

2019-11-02 17:00:56 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640233899842076672/tumblr_nr7fli7gth1s2yegdo1_400.gif

2019-11-02 17:01:13 UTC

I'm not gonna argue morality now

2019-11-02 17:01:20 UTC

but it's not just subjective garbage

2019-11-02 17:01:26 UTC

Darwin called it Natural morality

2019-11-02 17:01:31 UTC

survival

2019-11-02 17:01:47 UTC

survival is just first order of business..

2019-11-02 17:02:12 UTC

thus its the purest life/death existential basis for decisions

2019-11-02 17:03:12 UTC

MASLOW's pyramid attempts to rationalize it

2019-11-02 17:03:26 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640234528153141275/maslow-s-hierarchy-of-needs--scalable-vector-illustration-655400474-5c6a47f246e0fb000165cb0a.png

2019-11-02 17:03:56 UTC

there's a critique that "self" should be at the top (individualist assumption)

2019-11-02 17:04:50 UTC

maybe Family could be at the top , the order of the top 3 are obviously not as readily agreed on

2019-11-02 17:05:25 UTC

that's great

2019-11-02 17:05:31 UTC

but it doesn't get past is/ought

2019-11-02 17:05:36 UTC

which is what we were arguing about

2019-11-02 17:05:38 UTC

๐Ÿคท๐Ÿป

2019-11-02 17:05:54 UTC

what YOU were arguing aout

2019-11-02 17:05:56 UTC

about

2019-11-02 17:06:05 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/634367565304561675/640235193390858270/giphy.gif

2019-11-02 17:06:17 UTC

its a moral system which is composed of some central tendencies of living things

2019-11-02 17:06:28 UTC

but it is what it is

2019-11-02 17:06:38 UTC

lol and?

2019-11-02 17:07:36 UTC

its not as if it could be justified over some other set of actions based on anything other than appeal to previously held values

2019-11-02 17:07:39 UTC

is it moral to afghan men to fuck little boys

2019-11-02 17:07:46 UTC

no

2019-11-02 17:07:50 UTC

if you truly think morality is subjective, then you're not honest..

2019-11-02 17:07:50 UTC

not to us

2019-11-02 17:08:24 UTC

@Banjod why not?

2019-11-02 17:08:55 UTC

just because you can't exactly describe something doesn't make it not real

2019-11-02 17:09:08 UTC

you already judge things on the daily basis

2019-11-02 17:09:37 UTC

you know you are more moral than some guy pushing drugs on kids

2019-11-02 17:09:41 UTC

@Deleted User Show up and I will pose what I promise will be an interesting argument to say the least regaurding this. Its 12:09 here now, what say we reconvine at 7:00.

2019-11-02 17:09:53 UTC

Banjod, the position that moral preferences are not necessary in a metaphysical sense does not mean that there aren't central moral tendencies

2019-11-02 17:09:55 UTC

of humans

2019-11-02 17:10:01 UTC

I agree with you

2019-11-02 17:10:05 UTC

I have my own morality

2019-11-02 17:10:09 UTC

and it has causes

2019-11-02 17:10:11 UTC

no

2019-11-02 17:10:13 UTC

it's not just that

2019-11-02 17:10:16 UTC

which make it similar to other people's

2019-11-02 17:10:16 UTC

you have it because you know better

2019-11-02 17:11:07 UTC

dealing with reality, pushing drugs on kids, in and of itself, is not a good thing

2019-11-02 17:11:11 UTC

right?

2019-11-02 17:11:27 UTC

you don't need to explain how you know

2019-11-02 17:11:29 UTC

you know

2019-11-02 17:11:40 UTC

and you know better than some idiot thinking otherwise

2019-11-02 17:11:44 UTC

it is moral to them

2019-11-02 17:11:47 UTC

your two opinions are not eqaul

2019-11-02 17:11:51 UTC

I know you know that

2019-11-02 17:11:52 UTC

Banjod I agree

2019-11-02 17:12:03 UTC

but its not a metaphysical thing

2019-11-02 17:12:10 UTC

maybe it is

2019-11-02 17:12:12 UTC

I just prefer my own moral perspective

2019-11-02 17:12:21 UTC

it's not about preference

2019-11-02 17:12:24 UTC

it's about knowing what is what

2019-11-02 17:12:48 UTC

but I can recognize that its an evolved/developed preference

2019-11-02 17:12:50 UTC

I just have it

2019-11-02 17:12:52 UTC

so what

2019-11-02 17:12:54 UTC

that doesn't devalue it to me

2019-11-02 17:12:57 UTC

it doesnt' change that you know

2019-11-02 17:13:01 UTC

I don't disagree

2019-11-02 17:13:09 UTC

so it's not just some evolutionary shit

2019-11-02 17:13:23 UTC

you are developed enough to understand that

2019-11-02 17:13:54 UTC

no one really believes the other, unless they are mentally ill or very wrong

2019-11-02 17:14:02 UTC

but everyone outside, that knows better, knows it's wrong

2019-11-02 17:14:07 UTC

and it's not a quesiton about it

2019-11-02 17:15:31 UTC

again, you don't need to be able to explain it, to now it

2019-11-02 17:15:35 UTC

know*

2019-11-02 17:15:38 UTC

it's the same as meaning

2019-11-02 17:15:41 UTC

I agree...

2019-11-02 17:15:44 UTC

I think we agree...

2019-11-02 17:15:49 UTC

good

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