In fact, there's probably multiple better ones

But I don't think Bitcoin will just crumble so quickly

I'm just making the case that people need to start thinking about selling Bitcoin. The thing about bubbles is that it's a huge game of hot potato. If you're not holding the potato, you're fine.

Should’ve fucking sold my BTC yesterday

Why?

It just plummeting 3,000 in an hour

oh no nigga

And the exchange is crashing

Buy low sell high

@⚡Clark⚡ relax dude, that's not too bad

It plummets like this every week

Bitcoin cash is on Coinbase now

oh shit

Fuck fuck fuckkkkk

This app is trash

Why is that bad?

LMAO Bitcoin "crashed" back to what it was a week ago

This happens so often and people flip out every time

I had my Bitcoin on an offline wallet during the fork. Still need to figure out how to get my Bitcoin Cash.

Wow.

the sustainability is definitely a concern. It becomes a moral issue at that point. And caring about efficiency is a white people problem

Caring about efficiency is a societal problem. A currency will not be viable as such if it's not efficient, and the value will never transform from speculative into utilitarian

What's going on with this Bitcoin Cash stuff?

Look at the IE general chat.

I just spent the last hour explaining Bitcoin Cash.

I believe it is the future of crypto and bitcoin core will be replaced by bitcoin cash.

Oh whoa

Even if bitcoin keeps forking? @Tanner - SC

@Matthias There is no need for further forking. BCH solved the only issue with BTC.

You could fork BTC yourself, but no one would adopt it because it wouldn’t add any value.

@Tanner - SC Does BCH solve the efficiency issue? Or does it still require the power of Ireland to run?

f to btc

i can't imagine peoples loss on this pullback

@this_that5553 The "efficiency issue" is not an issue. BCH has the potential to replace VISA and PayPal and it uses FAR less manpower and energy than them.

People talk smack because they can estimate the total power consumption of the biticoin network, but they can't easily estimate the total resource consumption of any fiat payment processor.

No coiners btfo

@Tanner - SC you said yourself that visa manages 24k transactions per second. BCH does 48

BCH has a roadmap to scale. They started at 8 MB blocks to prove they won't cause collapse because many in the BTC community were convinced 8 MB would cause collapse. And it's an adjustable value in BCH, so the users at any time can increase the limit. And the developers have proposal for future updates to change the default adjustment from 8 to higher.

That pic...

https://forum.therightstuff.biz/topic/71130/fuck-coinbase

This is why Monero should be the default tbh

These n00bs are just finding out Coinbase is cucky. Coinbase has been banning people for years. It's somewhat understandable because Coinbase doesn't want any negative PR nor do they want any retroactive regulation to bite them in the ass for any lax actions of the past, so they clamp down. It's stupid easy to work around. Just send the coins from Coinbase to a private wallet, then send the coins on to wherever you please.

No one should be storing coins on coinbase anyway, that's just IOUs. Hold your crypto yourself.

Here's a good phone app for storing BTC and BCH:
https://www.bitcoin.com/choose-your-wallet/bitcoin-com-wallet

I think I'll create a BCH wallet with that app

Might be annoying to send coinbase funds to the wallet though. Somehow have to copy the wallet code from phone to desktop. Maybe via email, which defeats the purpose of being more secure

@this_that5553 Use the coinbase phone app and then just copy/paste within your phone.

@here should we split crypto vs non-crypto finance?

Yes

So, trying to get in on buying ripple, first coin im buying ever, complete noob, getting this set up is ridiculous.

Dont know which exchange to use. Pretty sure im going to end up getting my identity stolen, everyone wants my social and what not. Plz halp.

Yes @ThisIsChris

No just ban nocoiners

get out

@ThisIsChris yes split out crypto currency related conversation from all other finance

Yes we should split them

Lol when the cryptos correct

I made a new server, guys
https://discord.gg/yescoinerspleasestfu

COINERS GET OUT

coiners pls leave

Mfw this channel still ends up being about crypto

No more crypto conversation in here

There's so many other finance topics to discuss that need a space: stocks, bonds, options, houses, business, tax-advantaged accounts, etc

@Guillaume did you say crypto?

For future people: this channel has a good history of noncrypto financial advice, you just have to search or scroll past the crypto stuff

Nocoiners unite!

Aka no bubble chasers

Muh scarcity != value

Financial experts: (including @Tycho Brahe and @Zyzz and any other Financial experts I might have forgotton) I'm been learning about researching stocks, and while I've seen a lot of explanations and theoretical models, I've never seen an example of a fully written out report that an analyst might write about a stock. Does anyone know where I could see some? I don't care if they're outdated or w/e I just want to see what an end result would look like. More examples the better.

@ThisIsChris I think I can help you with that

@Zyzz Great, I would appreciate it

MorningStar used to have some reports for free, I haven’t checked lately to see if they still do.

I still check stock valuations on Morningstar for free.

Your online broker may (usually does?) have access to reports from Morningstar, etc. Mine does.

Also:

`“You know you are in a bubble when the shoeshine boy starts giving financial advice and people take it seriously.”`

we are absolutely in a bubble. Its being driven by low interest rates (cheap money) that are driving up asset prices well above the rate of wage growth

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3319607-p-e-players-trouble-cashing-subprime-auto-plays

"Delinquencies on subprime auto loans made by non-bank lenders have been soaring for years, with the rate now approaching 10%."

@Zyzz How do I protect my savings for when the bubble pops? What's the likelihood of my investments taking a huge hit when the bubble pops?

That's what I'm worried about, but I'm not even educated enough to properly express my concern

@John O - thats the million dollar question that we all wish we knew. there is no sure fire way other than holding 100% cash. Other than that, pick a selection of broad based and diversified ETFs/mutual funds while keeping a portion of your savings in cash. Manage the % cash in your portfolio based on how optimistic you are about the stock market. it is very tough to call the top in the market

@Zyzz my biggest Q about a likely bubble is: is it going to cause a 2001 style 3 month recession, or a 2008 utter nightmare?

Also, 2008 is not as bad as it could get. It could get much worse.

True but hard to grapple with mentally, wasn't 2008 the biggest recession since the Great Depression?

@ThisIsChris thats a good question as well. To determine what the next situation may be like I think we need to examine what caused the last two. From my limited understanding of the 2001 recession, it was in manufacturing and largely unfelt by most of the country. The 2008 recession was obv felt by everyone. imo, the #1 factor that caused the recession was people getting loans they shouldn't have gotten (subprime - who are mostly minorities). this caused asset price inflation in housing (values far exceeded intrinsic value). money was somewhat cheap and was most certainly easy to attain. all of the fall out that came through defaulting derivatives and lehman going under was due to the pop in the housing market bubble, making it the origin of the crisis, imo. The housing market is a VERY large asset class. If we were going to go through a similarly painful recession, I'd venture to say we will have to have a similarly sized asset class burst. let's talk about different asset classes, their size, and propensity to burst.

Does anyone know why I cant C+P from word?

not trying to retype all of that

@Zyzz you're on your computer, right? From Word on your computer to Discord?

yes

The subprime auto loan market is doing poorly (10% default currently). While I think even a slight 2001 style recession would send the default rate up dramatically, this market is not large enough to cause serious systemic damage. The next asset class that is pretty large (over $1 trillion i believe) is the student loan market. From what I understand, you cannot discharge student loans in bankruptcy (both public and private loans). I am not exactly sure how the accounting would work for a financial institution who has made loans to students who have fallen behind on payment but if you have massive non payments by borrowers this could dramatically impact a firm's business operations which could result in 1) lower earning/decreased profitability, 2) pullback on lending, 3) something else I am unaware of. I do think the student loan market is resilience because 1) inability to default on payments, 2) parent cosigners. students are absolutely debt slaves but being a debt slave does not cause a massive recession. large numbers of people defaulting on payments at the same time does.

I was able to do it on my phone

@everyone if you have any interest in investing in 2018 read the below:

I have been thinking about 2018 as an investment year. I have come to the conclusion I think there is a strong possibility the S&P 500 will go up rather than down in 2018. As such I will be establishing a rather large position in the S&P 500 2x leveraged ETF ticker symbol: SSO. My thoughts are as follows: 1) I think the tax bill will provide substantial tailwinds for the economy. businesses are optimistic and will be more likely to provide employees with bonuses, higher wages, and increased hiring/more job security. consumer confidence has risen precipitously since trumps election and I believe it will continue to rise and stay high due to 1) more money in their paychecks, 2) better prospects for raises/promotions, 3) job security (due to companies hiring). The economy is ~70% consumption driven so it is always a good thing for the economy when consumers feel good about their economic prospects. the proverbial animal spirits are most certainly at play here.
How does this investment work? It’s a directional bet on the S&P 500 with 2x leverage. I think the S&P will go up rather than down in 2018 and I am buying this ETF to magnify my returns. Ex: lets say the S&P goes up 10% in 2018. This ETF will return 20% over the year. If I am wrong and the S&P goes down rather than up, remember, you’ll lose twice as much.
Who this investment is good for? 1) someone with an IRA who does not care about cash flow and will not be able to touch the money in 30+yrs, 2) someone with substantial resources who can afford to take risks. 3) someone willing to take on risk in general. Understand, if I am wrong, and the S&P decreases over 2018, you’ll lose twice as much as you would otherwise.

Something to watch also, Dominion energy as a long play

whats your thesis?

new facility built in cove point that exports natural gas from fracking in PA

The pipelines already existed as import lines