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2018-12-11 22:25:14 UTC

Treaties are easily broken. Look what we've done to the Injuns multiple times.

2018-12-11 22:25:14 UTC

@Salo Saloson i meant the alamo cenotaph

2018-12-11 22:25:39 UTC

I was just saying what the actual bourbons all agreed upon nibba

2018-12-11 22:26:14 UTC

>honor
>elites
<:really:453005408064241674>

2018-12-11 22:26:33 UTC

bush's aid got pretty pissy towards the end of our convo because i compared him to isis

2018-12-11 22:26:55 UTC

If you don't trust them to be honorable or abide by their word, why would you trust them with real power?

2018-12-11 22:27:01 UTC

"Words on paper" I'm sure the people who signed the new immigration acts said the same thing when they decided to change our founding interests of white men of good character

2018-12-11 22:27:04 UTC

<:really:453005408064241674>

2018-12-11 22:27:55 UTC

@TMatthews Good point, but they already have that "power".

2018-12-11 22:28:42 UTC

"look Miss, all i'm telling you is that my generation have failed to see what conservative men twice my senior have actually conserved. at this rate, and this is important for you to think about if you have any children, my unborn grandchildren and yours as well will have no future. If he's prepared to remove the cenotaph and the confederate plaque, then we will have nothing at this rate"
butthurt ensued after

2018-12-11 22:29:50 UTC

i'm having a hard time seeing the difference between leftists and normie-cons at this point

2018-12-11 22:30:45 UTC

@Kingfish He is legitimate. He cant inherit Spain. They were overthrown in 1830's in a revolution which installed the Oreanlists branch.

2018-12-11 22:31:51 UTC

He is also the great great grandson of Queen Victoria

2018-12-11 22:32:08 UTC

So in theory he could end up ruling Spain France and England.

2018-12-11 22:32:25 UTC

Royalty means nothing without the power to rule. The power to rule makes its own justifications of legitimacy.

2018-12-11 22:32:56 UTC

Alexander didn't let superstition or tradition or decrees keep him from the Persian throne.

2018-12-11 22:33:47 UTC

@MrDefault one crown to rule them all? ๐Ÿค”

2018-12-11 22:34:12 UTC

@Perihelion - CA Alexander also died and his empire collapsed. He was the legitimate son of the King of Macedonia. So it was like he was some peasant revolutionary.

2018-12-11 22:35:10 UTC

@Goose Habsburgs in the east Bourbons in the west, but who would rule the US ๐Ÿค” ?

2018-12-11 22:35:54 UTC

Why would it matter if the monarchy of spain was overthrown, if he is still of the line that renounced all claims

2018-12-11 22:36:16 UTC

No the Monarchy of France was overthrown.

2018-12-11 22:36:50 UTC

but he still is of a line that renounced all legal claims

2018-12-11 22:37:29 UTC

by that he wouldn't be able to claim either

2018-12-11 22:37:55 UTC

Cite your source big guy

2018-12-11 22:38:09 UTC

monarchy of France lost their way and abused their power <:sad:366743316475281408>

2018-12-11 22:38:28 UTC

the revolution was a bad idea, but it was inevitable

2018-12-11 22:39:14 UTC

citation: The treaty of Utrecht lmao

2018-12-11 22:39:29 UTC

I'm assuming you're not gonna take the wiki

2018-12-11 22:40:05 UTC

Yeah

2018-12-11 22:40:15 UTC

Thats why he cant inherit Spain

2018-12-11 22:40:25 UTC

lemme slow this down for you

2018-12-11 22:40:28 UTC

He is of the branch of French successors.

2018-12-11 22:40:36 UTC

Philip V renounced all claims to the FRENCH throne

2018-12-11 22:40:47 UTC

he is of Philip V's line

2018-12-11 22:40:48 UTC

Keep it civil, ladies. <:really:453005408064241674>

2018-12-11 22:40:49 UTC

therefore

2018-12-11 22:40:55 UTC

he has no claim to the French throne

2018-12-11 22:41:40 UTC

Kingfish is correct but it really doesn't matter. France is not going to revert to monarchy in the foreseeable future.

2018-12-11 22:44:19 UTC

I think if it's anyone it would be Henri dโ€™Orlรฉans

2018-12-11 22:44:31 UTC

@Kingfish The crown is not the personal property of the King and thus he cannot alter the line of succession by abdication or renunciation.

2018-12-11 22:44:44 UTC

Yes he literally can

2018-12-11 22:44:47 UTC

he did

2018-12-11 22:44:52 UTC

at the Treaty of Utrecht

2018-12-11 22:45:06 UTC

@Kingfish Yeah that is invalid.

2018-12-11 22:45:07 UTC

it happened

2018-12-11 22:45:20 UTC

according to who lmao

2018-12-11 22:45:33 UTC

it wasn't invalid for any of the European powers

2018-12-11 22:45:51 UTC

it stood as the law for over 300 years

2018-12-11 22:45:55 UTC

now it's invalid?

2018-12-11 22:45:57 UTC

It was done to end endless wars in Europe not to dethrone the rightfully monarch.

2018-12-11 22:46:12 UTC

He wasn't dethroned

2018-12-11 22:46:18 UTC

he was King of Spain

2018-12-11 22:46:27 UTC

Yeah they are all dethroned now

2018-12-11 22:46:29 UTC

>arguing about European rule instead of discussing about how we fix our own countries issues. <:really:453005408064241674>

2018-12-11 22:46:32 UTC

okay?

2018-12-11 22:46:35 UTC

and?

2018-12-11 22:46:38 UTC

yeah they are

2018-12-11 22:46:42 UTC

doesn't change the laws

2018-12-11 22:46:42 UTC

Which wasnt the original intent.

2018-12-11 22:46:51 UTC

doesn't matter what intent was LOL

2018-12-11 22:47:06 UTC

They are all pretenders.

2018-12-11 22:47:15 UTC

he renounced ALL legal claims to the FRENCH throne by himself and his heirs to the end of time

2018-12-11 22:47:27 UTC

that was agreed upon and signed into law by all European powers

2018-12-11 22:47:30 UTC

therefore it stands as law

2018-12-11 22:47:30 UTC
2018-12-11 22:47:44 UTC

The revolution ended any rightfully claim to the throne due to the end of continuity of it.

2018-12-11 22:47:53 UTC

Every unelected ruler is a "pretender", heck even the elected ones pretend to care about the plebs...

2018-12-11 22:47:56 UTC

LOL

2018-12-11 22:48:01 UTC

revolution is valid now?

2018-12-11 22:48:07 UTC

but legal treaty isn't?

2018-12-11 22:48:07 UTC

No its not valid

2018-12-11 22:48:07 UTC

Revolution worked out well for us.

2018-12-11 22:48:09 UTC

okay bud

2018-12-11 22:48:24 UTC

the dude is of the same line that renounced all claims by legal treaty

2018-12-11 22:48:28 UTC

he can claim it all he wants

2018-12-11 22:48:35 UTC

but it is not a legal claim anymore

2018-12-11 22:48:47 UTC

I have just as good claim as he does

2018-12-11 22:49:02 UTC

We iz kang? ๐Ÿค”

2018-12-11 22:49:35 UTC

objectively you don't have as good a claim as he does

2018-12-11 22:49:35 UTC

There is no legal claim to the throne it doesnt exist. If he was installed as a monarch it woundnt be invalid either though.

2018-12-11 22:50:10 UTC

You would have a better argument if the French Monarchy was still a thing

2018-12-11 22:50:11 UTC

yeah he renounced it (legally, with due process), but he's actually french and of the line. none of us are

2018-12-11 22:50:11 UTC

thats way different than the argument you were making earlier

2018-12-11 22:50:32 UTC

@Sam Southern - TN by renouncing legal claim it doesn't matter how close by blood he is he has no legal claim

2018-12-11 22:50:54 UTC

He has more of right to the throne because of his noble birth

2018-12-11 22:50:56 UTC

lol I'm not arguing legal claim, he has a *better* claim than you or any of us do

2018-12-11 22:51:18 UTC

Not more of a claim than Henri @MrDefault

2018-12-11 22:51:41 UTC

Guys Kings are made because their Lords fight for them. Pedigrees are legal nonsense.

2018-12-11 22:51:48 UTC

This is great stuff. I recommend giving this a listen/watch.
Watch "A New French Revolution? (Gilets Jaunes)" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/pr8J1RjknLI

2018-12-11 22:51:49 UTC

you said he was legitimate "He is legitimate. He cant inherit Spain."

2018-12-11 22:51:58 UTC

which neither of these are accurate

2018-12-11 22:52:12 UTC

actually he can't inherit spain anymore so that part is

2018-12-11 22:52:21 UTC

but if anything he has a way better claim to spain

2018-12-11 22:52:37 UTC

Unless these fops get 10,000 soldiers to March on the capital theyre not monarchs in any sense.

2018-12-11 22:52:44 UTC

@Kingfish I said theoretically he could claim both Spain, France and England.

2018-12-11 22:52:50 UTC

where

2018-12-11 22:52:59 UTC

scroll up

2018-12-11 22:53:12 UTC

nvm see it but he can't claim france at all

2018-12-11 22:53:17 UTC

he could try to claim spain

2018-12-11 22:53:19 UTC

I'd back that

2018-12-11 22:53:23 UTC

He could though

2018-12-11 22:53:29 UTC

Loyalists support him

2018-12-11 22:53:45 UTC

okay thats cool I'm saying he doesnt have a legal claim

2018-12-11 22:53:58 UTC

If they seized power they couldnt annul the treaty of Utrecth

2018-12-11 22:53:59 UTC

wait who's claiming England?

2018-12-11 22:54:00 UTC

sure he could overthrow the government and instate himself find

2018-12-11 22:54:18 UTC

seizing power does not equal inherit.

2018-12-11 22:54:21 UTC

you know that

2018-12-11 22:54:26 UTC

Under the grounds that France needs a rightful monarch

2018-12-11 22:54:28 UTC

Anyone who siezes power can do whatever they want by definition

2018-12-11 22:54:31 UTC

he cannot legally INHERIT the french throne

2018-12-11 22:54:32 UTC

That's what power means

2018-12-11 22:54:36 UTC

he can take it I guess

2018-12-11 22:54:41 UTC

but thats not a legal inheritance

2018-12-11 22:54:41 UTC

Legality is for peasents

2018-12-11 22:54:45 UTC

The way things stand no one can INHERIT the throne

2018-12-11 22:54:50 UTC

sure

2018-12-11 22:54:52 UTC

There is no throne

2018-12-11 22:54:53 UTC

I agree with that

2018-12-11 22:54:59 UTC

it was abolished in the revolution.

2018-12-11 22:55:03 UTC

My only point was he no longer has a legal claim

2018-12-11 22:55:07 UTC

which is correct

2018-12-11 22:55:13 UTC

that's all I'm saying

2018-12-11 22:55:41 UTC

Very Based And KingPilled As Well.

2018-12-11 22:55:47 UTC

My dudes the throne was made up by a warlord who killed anyone who disagreed. Don't fall for the legalism meme.

2018-12-11 22:55:57 UTC

<:really:453005408064241674>

2018-12-11 22:56:07 UTC

@NITRODUBS lol one of my coworkers in the past called me "like the most conservative person ever"

oh I'm definitely not conservative <:teehee:381917632359563264>

2018-12-11 22:56:12 UTC

>not falling for the divine right meme instead

2018-12-11 22:56:16 UTC

my dudes borders aren't real they are a figment of our imagination. Don't fall for the legalism meme

2018-12-11 22:56:24 UTC

@Perihelion - CA Patrick Casey is the legitimate monarch of Evropa change my mind

2018-12-11 22:56:29 UTC

who cares about laws dude

2018-12-11 22:56:33 UTC

borders can literally be defined and redefined at will, that's objectively true

2018-12-11 22:56:34 UTC

its all about might makes right

2018-12-11 22:56:43 UTC

too bad our enemies have quite a bit of might

2018-12-11 22:56:46 UTC

<:really:453005408064241674>

2018-12-11 22:56:46 UTC

I'm sure the Divine right meme really saved the caliph of Baghdad when the huns arrived

2018-12-11 22:56:55 UTC

otherwise the LA Purchase makes no sense, the conquest of Spanish Florida makes no sense, etc.

2018-12-11 22:56:58 UTC

Might makes right is terrible meme.

2018-12-11 22:57:15 UTC

I agree

2018-12-11 22:57:18 UTC

Im mocking it lmao

2018-12-11 22:58:04 UTC

Im pretty sure though Patrick is descended from the King of Ireland

2018-12-11 22:58:21 UTC

Stupid Laws destroy nations. Loyalty to them above your people is silly.

2018-12-11 22:58:35 UTC

how can Ireland have a throne if it can't even have it's whole country LOL

2018-12-11 22:58:48 UTC

@Perihelion - CA never said I was more loyal to law than nation

2018-12-11 22:58:49 UTC

@Perihelion - CA Loyalty to your king was loyalty to your people big guy.

2018-12-11 22:59:09 UTC

Except when the king was senile and weak

2018-12-11 22:59:10 UTC

just saying to deny legalism is stupid and quite a bad idea.

2018-12-11 22:59:18 UTC

Then a better Lord rebelled and ruled.

2018-12-11 22:59:40 UTC

And made up a justificstion post facto

2018-12-11 22:59:41 UTC

@Perihelion - CA That had more to do with royal families inbreding.

2018-12-11 23:00:54 UTC

Ignoring laws is only a bad idea if they're enforced. The fact of their enforcement is proof of the power of the ruler.

2018-12-11 23:01:08 UTC

Acknowledge power as it is

2018-12-11 23:01:14 UTC

if loyalty to the king was loyalty to the people, then overthrowing bad kings and putting the next best Lord in his place is legitimate yeah? even though it's not a legal succession?

2018-12-11 23:01:48 UTC

@Sam Southern - TN Depends on the situation really and why that king was bad.

2018-12-11 23:01:57 UTC

(not a monarchist, don't know how yall monarchists work, honestly curious)

2018-12-11 23:02:06 UTC

I'm not a monarchist either

2018-12-11 23:02:09 UTC

The huns had a Divine right to rule Baghdad because they could.

2018-12-11 23:02:14 UTC

I think Monarchy is big gey

2018-12-11 23:02:25 UTC

Monarchy is cringe and bluepilled

2018-12-11 23:02:38 UTC

Im sympathetic to Monarchists but fail to see how it would work in the US since no king.

2018-12-11 23:02:44 UTC

Monarchy seems like a long term version of fascism lol

2018-12-11 23:02:49 UTC

eh

2018-12-11 23:02:57 UTC

Monarchy is the most heavenly form of government

2018-12-11 23:02:57 UTC

some would agree

2018-12-11 23:03:07 UTC

> let's just give the king's son power and see what happens lmao how could this go wrong

2018-12-11 23:03:08 UTC

Monarchy is bad tbh

2018-12-11 23:03:10 UTC

it just seems like fascism with a defined line of succession

2018-12-11 23:03:20 UTC

the monarchy dice is a bad roll a lot of the time

2018-12-11 23:03:23 UTC

The great chain of being extends from God down to the King down to the family patriarch

2018-12-11 23:03:24 UTC

Best Roman emperors were all adopted. Circulation of elites is important

2018-12-11 23:03:53 UTC

@Sam Southern - TN Not really Fascism was an attempt to get close to what monarchy was before it was overthrown by Communists.

2018-12-11 23:04:00 UTC
2018-12-11 23:04:11 UTC

I'm way late to that conversation, but @Goose "What have they conserved?" Is may favourite.

2018-12-11 23:04:16 UTC

Fascism was trying to fill the void monarchy left, not build on it

2018-12-11 23:04:29 UTC

Let's just let Ivanka be the next president because muh monarch's child

2018-12-11 23:04:39 UTC

Monarchy is not fascism and fascism is not attempt to make a secular Monarchy.

2018-12-11 23:05:02 UTC

@Jacob epic women cant normally inherent

2018-12-11 23:05:04 UTC

To be fair to the line is succession bit, I kinda see the logic that someone trained from birth to lead would theoretically be very well suited to lead.

2018-12-11 23:05:12 UTC

Neither is Monachy totalitarian as the rings of hierarchy were, are, clearly defined and limited

2018-12-11 23:05:40 UTC

@MrDefault okay let's let Baron be president without knowing what kind of person he'll grow up to be

2018-12-11 23:05:41 UTC

@Sam Southern - TN agreed 100% it just sucks that it doesnt always work out that way

2018-12-11 23:06:07 UTC

@Sam Southern - TN If the first ruler was the one that was genetically the best of the tribe it would make sense that those genes would be passed down from father to son.

2018-12-11 23:06:37 UTC

Imagine unironically not supporting a Barron cyber monarchy

2018-12-11 23:06:43 UTC

this tbh ^

2018-12-11 23:07:04 UTC

โ˜๐Ÿป

2018-12-11 23:07:08 UTC

If genes determined 100% of behavior, monarchy would be great.

In real life, it's a massive dice roll.

How many of you actually turned out politically similar to your parents?

2018-12-11 23:07:08 UTC

okay I'm out for now. Gotta finish a paper. anyone want to continue this autism later ping me

2018-12-11 23:07:32 UTC

My jeans are cool.

2018-12-11 23:07:42 UTC

@Jacob The church did play a huge role in filtering out unsavory monarchs.

2018-12-11 23:07:42 UTC

I prefer basketball shorts

2018-12-11 23:08:29 UTC

uhh ya I'd rather not give the Catholic Church any political power but that's probably not a topic for this server

2018-12-11 23:08:39 UTC

Lol

2018-12-11 23:08:44 UTC

Yeah

2018-12-11 23:09:01 UTC

Rome was strongest when the Senate familial clans (the Gens) were pure and intact

2018-12-11 23:09:25 UTC

A heritidary nobility provides a genepool for good rulers

2018-12-11 23:09:41 UTC

This was Plato's ideal as well

2018-12-11 23:09:49 UTC

New rules of primogeniture could be established that factor in genetic pedgree as well as accomplishments in adult life, the Gens Imperator could be renewed every generation by the election of a new rule based on a series of standards to draw from a general aristocratic class

2018-12-11 23:09:53 UTC

There's a big debate around the role of the Aristocracy and the role it plays in a monarchy. Not a lot of love for the merchant class

2018-12-11 23:10:38 UTC

Circulation of genes is essential but it should be slow and we'll selected

2018-12-11 23:12:08 UTC

Selection is key for sure

2018-12-11 23:15:04 UTC

@Perihelion - CA Incorrect. Plato actually wanted philosopher kings to not get married or have children so that they wouldn't be influenced by any interests besides the good of the Polis. He also believed that the best leaders could come from any class and be picked based on merit

2018-12-11 23:19:56 UTC

Childless rulers have not worked well in the last 60 years, I feel that a familial bond to the nation is a must, not necesarily a hereditary government office, but a prerequisite to holding office in an established state

2018-12-11 23:20:46 UTC

The problem is that all the monarchs have a hatred for the ideology that unseated them: nationalism. The Hapsburgs are BIG EU supporters.

2018-12-11 23:21:50 UTC

Hapsburgs support the EU because they believe they should be the head of the EU.

2018-12-11 23:24:01 UTC

The prince married a half-black American divorcee because the Queen needed a colored member of the family to parade around multi-racial England.

2018-12-11 23:24:11 UTC

Monarchy is fine, hereditary monarchy is big gay

2018-12-11 23:24:17 UTC

Also rip France again

2018-12-11 23:24:31 UTC

Is religion of peace confirmed yet

2018-12-11 23:25:05 UTC

I think monarch should be selected through ritualized military tribal combat conducted in the Yukon wilderness

2018-12-11 23:25:26 UTC

Obviously this is the only way to avoid fops

2018-12-11 23:25:53 UTC

Monarchy sucks. Absolute power is dangerous, and there's no way for a monarchy to have the people behind it now that nobody believes in divine right

2018-12-11 23:26:17 UTC

His moral character will be tried by his ability to recruit a team of the best and most competent men to risk their lives in the trial by combat

2018-12-11 23:27:05 UTC

absolute power doesn't exist. Even the absolute monarch had his head chopped off by peasants. Its more honest than what we have now

2018-12-11 23:27:06 UTC

Morality arises out of teamwork being stronger than solo strength

2018-12-11 23:27:25 UTC

See peasents and head chopping

2018-12-11 23:29:07 UTC

Revolutions almost never succeed, and when they do they're revolutions of the bourgeoisie not the peasantry

2018-12-11 23:29:43 UTC

I would prefer a system that is not so unstable and inflexible as to make violent revolution the primary means of change

2018-12-11 23:29:56 UTC

Once the aristocracy lost the ear of the monarch, it was only a matter of time before the monarchy lost his head.

2018-12-11 23:31:16 UTC

Thats a funny thing to say as we watch the Trump presidency be strangled by the Deep State

2018-12-11 23:31:33 UTC

The shift away from a feudal agricultural economy combined with the Enlightenment made the old order unsustainable.

2018-12-11 23:34:10 UTC

I would prefer not to go into LARP territory regarding what it might take to salvage America, but I will say that there is a fundamental difference between having a revolution every few centuries as a last resort vs having it be the only means of achieving change. America went almost 200 years before the deep state was a thing

2018-12-11 23:36:45 UTC

It's not LARPing so much as critique of democracy in the abstract. The upside of autocracy is the ability to affect change quickly. Democracy is meant to make change much harder. The Lows are higher but the highs are lower, as it were.

2018-12-11 23:39:48 UTC

I don't support democracy per se. I want a constitutional republic with limited suffrage based on knowledge of history, civics, current events, etc. There would have to be guaranteed free speech online and a breakup of the Jewish oligopoly on media as well.

2018-12-11 23:40:38 UTC
2018-12-11 23:41:08 UTC

Any democratic form of government can only function properly in a homogeneous and patriotic country, I would add.

2018-12-11 23:41:13 UTC

Ritualized complex combat maybe even in game form would be a good option for ruler selection

2018-12-11 23:41:38 UTC

Rulers should command respect and loyalty of strong men

2018-12-11 23:42:11 UTC

But lest we be ruled by Chads the combat should require analytical ability

2018-12-11 23:42:58 UTC

You can do a lot worse than the quarterback president

2018-12-11 23:43:09 UTC

But we could probably do better too with a better game

2018-12-11 23:43:36 UTC

So Jiu Jitsu?

2018-12-11 23:43:46 UTC

Jocko Wilink would rule the world

2018-12-11 23:43:48 UTC

One key is that the teams can't be recruited for him . He needs to create his team from scratch

2018-12-11 23:43:55 UTC

Prove his power to lead

2018-12-11 23:44:05 UTC

Jocko would be a good dictator.

2018-12-11 23:44:33 UTC

The King of Jordan basically is Jocko

2018-12-11 23:44:59 UTC

@TMatthews and is highly suseptable to corruption.

2018-12-11 23:46:11 UTC

This will all be obsolete when we can genetically engineer replicate and improve the perfect leader, coupled with mind writing technology to create an immortal prime conciousness

2018-12-11 23:46:30 UTC

Haha

2018-12-11 23:46:50 UTC

Immortal mind tempts the utopian principle.

2018-12-11 23:46:51 UTC

Techno-medievalist Divinely Genetic predeterminist right to rule

2018-12-11 23:47:10 UTC

None of this will matter when we are all stuffed into pleasure pods to live in our own personal matrix

2018-12-11 23:47:21 UTC

Maybe we already are

2018-12-11 23:47:22 UTC

No lie is detected

2018-12-11 23:47:53 UTC

And these fevered dreams are the beginning of our birth from the pod mind into our original bodies

2018-12-11 23:47:54 UTC

I'm definitely not in a pleasure pod yet...

2018-12-11 23:48:01 UTC

Personal pleasure pods will exist before the robots take over.

2018-12-11 23:48:27 UTC

If i was, I'd be in Iceland rn, NOT Maryland. <:sad:366743316475281408>

2018-12-11 23:48:32 UTC

Embrace the age of the machine, they operate by pattern recognition

2018-12-11 23:48:53 UTC

Too bad the birds are fake and cannot help us fight the robots. But you will find the last camp of humans on the edge of the icewall.

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