#general (Discord ID: 481597551272001546) in Nice Respectable People Group, page 551
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Oh no! Hunter Wallace/Richard Spencer/Matthew Parrot/Chris Cantwell doesn't like us? Good. I don't want them to.
At least a little
Can members write letters and send concession petty cash outside of I.E. acknowledgement? (I suggest using a pseudonym and PO box though, or no return address at all, feds def go through the mail).
@Flint Think about it this way: what argument are you trying to make with JAF?
@Flint Stand up how? Do you want a banner drop? Another UTR style rally? I just don't see what we could do even if we decided this was a hill worth dying on (it isn't).
if you are arguing that our justice system is fundamentally broken, then you are effectively arguing that you don't want to be countrymen with the rest of the U.S..
@Rabbidsith The Nation is the Land and People, not the Kritarchy
@Wood-Ape - OK/MN there are probably people who write letters to prisoners in IE, they probably don't talk about it.
Our justice system is fundamentally broken. Fields is not the first or last miscarriage of justice. I'd rather focus on how Kate Steinle's killer, OJ Simpson, and the J20 rioters were acquitted than have to convince people to hear me out defending a "nazi who murdered a woman with his car"
@Wood-Ape - OK/MN However, for practical purposes, your talking points must line up with your goals as a potical movement.
@Flint Again, I'm not doubting the factual accuracy of your claims.
IE and Prison are like Sun and Moon, both exist and are necessary, but they don't touch each other.
@Rabbidsith No, I'm not going to repeat myself, you already have my talking points. If you don't feel conviction for not sticking up for a white guy who got rail roaded bc you want to preserve our image (to what extent, by the way?)--that's on you. I don't expect everyone to see it as I do, but most do
Our aim is to lead the path forward for our people in this new world we are entering. Everyone else has had their chance and screwed up ROYALLY.
The lesson we should be taking from UTR is not "Ohhh there's no fair trial for pro-whites" it's "You lay down in the dirt with dogs, and you will catch fleas". These charlatans and scumbags have ruined what was potentially a good thing for egotistical reasons. Now a (stupid) young man will be forced to rot in jail as a consequence.
There will be more and better optics defendants than Fields in the future. Maybe it will be one of us. If it is and the member was behaving as we would expect, then it would be a fight worth having
Muh talking points
@Flint As a libertarian, I agree with you. As an American I agree with you.
@Wood-Ape - OK/MN I live in a city of about 120k, but there are plenty of woods around
@Flint However, as a pragmatic political activist, I understand that so much of what people see as reality is entirely a fantasy.
@Papa Pizzagate Sounds great, but what are the specifics on that? What is "lead[ing] the path forward for our people"? What does that *look* like?
It's not like we're celebrating the verdict. We're simply choosing not to say anything.
@Flint I suspect the conference in March will answer your questions, given its name
If you don’t want to be arrested by the commissars in our “justice system” you’re not a real countryman
Why say nothing when giving a cogent and concise response to this injustice is an option? We can be specific and detailed about how this affects us with out giving tacit support to violence
I'm gonna drop some hard truth on you @Flint. I feel really bad for Fields and I certainly don't think he deserves his fate, but he was objectively not a sound person. He was probably mentally disturbed, he came from a broken home, he physically attacked his MOTHER a number of times. His mom told him to be careful, he responded with a menacing quote and a photo of history's most hated dictator.
I can't speak for his intentions in going, but I am not convinced it was purely to peacefully protest the removal of a statue. The same goes for the rise above guys. Most of them have served multiple years in prison, committing felonies etc. They all have some redeeming qualities, no doubt - but there was enough evidence to prosecute, and prosecute they will...
@Flint Therefore, unless are arguing that this organization needs to focus on balkanization: something that is readily achievable IMHO, reality takes a back seat to rhetoric. As a libertarian, nothing disgusts me more than what I'm saying.
1. Get our speech rights back
2. Regain our right to peacefully assemble
3. Judicial fairness
^That is the only path forward, if we even want a path to walk on ten years from now
https://reactionaryfuturism.com/2018/05/21/the-path-to-power/ wait did my last message post?
These things aren't happening under Trump and they certainly wont be happening under any other future president @Flint
@Papa Pizzagate it doesnt matter that he happened to be weird, it could have happened to any one of us.
@Papa Pizzagate All sound points but it doesn't discount what's happening to them regardless of who they are or their past. No white person will get better treatment than they are receiving when standing up to the institutions.
History's most hated dictator? Obama?
*What* is happening is more important that *who* it is happening to
Depends who wins
What's beginning is more important than what's happening. The world is a beautiful place right now for Identitarianism.
What's beginning will be derailed, isolated, and destroyed if we ignore what is happening *now*.
Having an accurate and honest survey of your conditions is just about the wisest thing a group or person can do
@Papa Pizzagate doesnt matter that he was weird or emotionally unstable. could have been any of us.
doesnt matter if he was sound or not. if his appeal doesnt go well this sort of thing sets a precedent of a complete railroading of anyone who ever for any reason whatsoever gets into any shit & is branded a racist by the media.
gavin has the FBI down his neck despite running a multiracial group. obviously he pulled a katana on NYPD & whatnot or brandished & talked openly about violence, but the proudboys are certainly no Jewish Defense League
ffs server problems man
I disagree. Defensible people get defensible treatment.
dude if you think we would ever get a fair shake from anyone in the justice system or the media or the system at large because youre "defensible" then youre completely disconnected from reality
I did, Koba. In case you are forgetting...
Whites who don't want to die are not defensible in the eyes of the bureaucratic and journalistic priest class
lol yeah an exception is a trend
cantwell almost went to prison for life for discharing.... pepperspray in a clear self defense effort to de escalate a situation antagonized against him by people maliciously attempting to stir up violence
Perhaps Ian is right but the bar for "defensible" has just gotten a lot higher?
the only way he got out of that was by talking to the feds
Again. James Fields wasn't a "White who didn't want to die" He was a guy who ran down 20+ people with his car in a radically left wing college town. And you all are defending him. Get serious.
at what 28 miles an hour? after circling looking to get out? after have a firearm brandished at him?
are you serious dude?
Or did he not run down a crowd full of people in a muscle car?
ok bro next time I end up in the shit Ill make sure to pause reality & swap out my car with a smart car so that I look more _defensible_
I am not defending him. I am just pointing out this is just another beaver block on their totem pole they are climbing to get to everyone.
@Rabbidsith Are we doing the Socratic thing? Let's be normal: we need to be able to get back on social media (so we can have a voice in the matter and not be contained), we need the right to peacefully assemble (not even R-wing normies can do that anymore) and we need the law to be applied equally to Antifa
Or maybe don't commit multiple felonies and drive down a crowd of protesters @Koba
@Rabbidsith I'm not for separatism at all, we'd be taken over in a year lol
Everything nationalistic is "right wing" these days. I'll take it.
@Flint If you are not for sepratism, then make me a philosophical argument for JAF that would appeal to a normie.
I think you are being unnecessarily boolean about this. @Koba
and I will concede your point
@Asatru Artist - MD Apparently, Sargin got kicked off of Patreon today for being "right-wing" ("racist)")... 😏
@Rabbidsith Then have no fear, as I've already said: it's not about *who* it is happening to, it is about *what* is happening.
Don't be so melodramatic @Koba. C'mon, brother. We're better than this, _and James Fields_, which is exactly why none of us were in that position. I'm not a real big fan of whataboutisms, whatifs, and omgwtfbbqs contemplating alternate realities. The fact of the matter is it happened to him, and he made some really poor decisions leading up to finality today.
@Papa Pizzagate Do you think we should have thrown Nathan under the bus after Berkeley? In a different situation he could have easily ended up like that California organization we're not supposed to talk about.
@Rabbidsith Nah. He'll ride that fence all the way to Englandistan.
Nathan is the elephant in the room rn , lol
Yeah, I hear ya 😉
@Rabbidsith Then calmly explain to them *why* it is happening to them. The rally being shut down by cops and local gov in collusion with anarchists
This never would have happened without that
@Flint That only works if they think that it was a miscarriage of justice.
@Flint I can't think of one person outside of the broader dissident right that agrees with you.
@Rabbidsith Once you tell them what Antifa did, you'd be surprised to see how they'll come over to your side of the argument. Normies hate Antifa
*that I know personally
Pre-C'Ville is known for two punches. One at Spencer and One from Nathan.
With leadership like this Im not interested in this group. James clearly has personal issues. I dont think anyone in my age cohort who grew up in any diverse non middle america area doesnt. I refuse to be complicit or participate in a group that throws our own men under the bus because they arent deemed _defensible_. I cannot trust the leadership of a group who would do this. I cannot in good faith give my money to a group of leaders who I do not think will watch out for my best interests or the interest of folks similar to me. I cannot stand by and participate in a group who believes that they are above one of our men who is clearly in his time of need & has been attacked & railroaded viciously by the system as a message to us as a whole because he, at a young age, without proper guidance & with a system that has proactively attacked him his entire life, has some personal issues he has not worked out on his own at the ripe old age of 20. @Papa Pizzagate thats also not how the word boolean works.
Nathan's actions at Berkeley were very defensible tbh
I liked the torch-lit walk the night before. That was really whitepilling
But the next day was a disaster
@Volkisch Soldat - OK who is throwing anyone under the bus lol? These guys committed violent acts and are suffering the consequences - it sucks, but i mean are you honestly claiming that Fields DIDN'T mow down a crowd of protesters (regardless of the facts surrounding the situation) or that Rise Above DIDN'T exist to beat up the left? Nathan was spared the long arm of the law because he always preached non-violence, both publicly and privately.
@Koba Only a few guys are throwing him under the bus. Many of us are not tossing him aside
The organization should not publicly take a stance on this matter but we as private individuals and the broader movement absolutely should when addressing those to whom it would resonate with. Nonetheless, if the broader movement doesnt understand why IE doesnt take a public stance while engaged in ongoing legal action and optics building they are stupid or as in the case with Spencer and co just being subversive.
@Koba I am sorry that you feel so strongly about Fields. What would you propose we do, realistically?
Stop being so holier than thou
To be fair, as a new guy, IE does seem to care a lot about it's members.
Idk, perhaps something as simple as not dehumanize & justify the extreme & preposterous conspiracy that the enemy is clearly engaging in against him. @Papa Pizzagate
I think Fields panicked because he was being attacked. I certainly think his trial is being used as a warning to the rest of us
@Flint That's only if you can convince them that antifa were the ones responsible.
>all these conversations rn
@Koba is right, though. There are many factors that come into play when deciding not to make a statement on an event like this
Utterly ice cold takes tonight.
A young kid panicked in a crowd and made a massive mistake. He is having an example made of him. It could have easily have been any one of us who, under bad judgement, took that wrong turn in Chatlottesville that day.
I'd be fine if the organization didn't do anything about fields. It would be cool if y'all had a less gay attitude about it though.
I was there and saw the chaos
Silence can be seen as lack of support. Even a public statement saying we can't comment on it bc we are in a lawsuit would put many at ease
It was a madhouse
So was Ian
Indeed, but everyone who came knew to walk out together.
Unfortunately he came alone.
But I will say that imo Fields is completely innocent, perhaps guilty of negligence at the very most, bad optics are weak evidence for establishing the express malice of first degree murder, many people commit murder and other crimes who are liberal or apolitical, and the vast majority of those with bad optics are not criminals although they do make me worry at times.
I also went to cville alone
It could have been me
But I also used my head
I’m pictured next to the guy. I personally still stand with him and felt that verdict Ike it was my own
I was on the front
I talk to a handful of guys that day who came alone. They were all kind of weirdos. If your in a racist 'fraternity' you are a bit of a weirdo. If any of you autists ended up in jail I would lament and not be a f*g about it
If blacks will excuse their most heinous of criminals despite how those same criminals terrorize their own communities I will speak up for the rights of an innocent white man when it is appropriate.
Oath keepers were pointing rifles at everyone
I think that there is an argument to be made on both sides.
@TylerHess Blacks will also disavow members who do bad things and they also have people saying "what an innocent young lad".
It's giving me adrenaline thinking about all of this and cville
I still have webms on my computer of nationalists marching and shouting "blood and soil". I was so proud
I miss how things were prior to UTR.
It would actually be beneficial to IE if a public statement was made regarding how we cannot comment on this due to an ongoing law suit.
I will have to find them
Patrick and the team make great decisions regarding media engageme t
Not standing up for railroaded white people is a very bad look
I think the less we publicly draw attention to ourselves + Cville, the better. A statement on something that has nothing to do with us officially will only reinforce the link between us and that disaster.
As individuals, stand with Fields if you feel so inclined.
And the death of law and order is certainly note worthy for an Identitarian group
>making passive aggressive digs at who you view as the opposing side on this issue
“Surely this will bridge this divide!”
Pick your battles
Fields' situation is very regrettable. He was dealt a bad hand the day he was born. I think the best we can do now is hope for a successful appeal.
Ask yourself what we can gain and what we can lose
“IE defends convicted murderers” isn’t a “good look” lol
Strategy, not emotion, is what guides leadership
Volk I don't know who you are directing that towards, who is making these comments ?
Is part of our strategy to ignore how upset people are about this sham trial?
Your comment in and of itself was being passive
Tensions are high and we all have strong thoughts on the matter
Speak up son
We are all together in this.
We aren’t ignoring it, Patrick addressed it on Twitter during the trial and stated that legally, it’s a bad idea for us to do or say much about it
What happened to Fields was regrettable but the leadership are handling it in the best they can with the org being entangled in a lawsuit as well.
Everybody, nobody in particular.
I don’t see much good faith.
Just so we're clear the standard of guilt is 'beyound a reasonable doubt', and the evidence ive seen couldnt even begin to convince any reasonable trier of fact of the necessary element of express malice, not even 'clear and convincing' which is the next level at 90%. You could even say 'I think there's an 80% chance he's guilty' and that would not be enough to convict.
Tbh I really don't see what there is to fight about here.
PS I love you all regardless
If anybody in IE got into a situation like Fields, I believe virtually everybody would exercise enough self control, not to plow into a crowd of bystanders because they feared for their lives. James Fields is not the hill we should choose to die on.
A good statement made 2 days ago. Given the verdict of the trial, we might want to make another one (as we all know, no one is going to scroll down that far for it)
Virgil it is so easy to say when you were not in that car with mobs around you.
What was the name of the guy who died in the LA riots? Dragged from his car and beaten?
@Flint It's not a good idea for us to comment on it publicly for our case, and it won't make a difference in particular.
In this case I think I can speak for "leadership" and say that we simply accepted from the beginning that a conviction was likely and prepared ourselves accordingly.
Things could get a lot worse and the answer here is to respond with an unprecedented level of organization. The military has a slogan: "Embrace the suck" and the alt right had "Surf the Kali Yuga."
Obviously, there's no harm in some necessary decompression, but I hope my announcement can remind people to reorient quickly.
He didn't die.
But he was beaten brutally.
Reginald Denny survived by the grace of God, he had bricks thrown at his unconscious head
@BryceB-ND Self control is key, this is a dissident political organization/movement if we don't exercise masterful self control, then situations like this are going to keep happening. We shouldn't make excuses for a lack of it.
It is disturbing if the precedent is now that white guys like Denny have to accept being beaten
Were you there with black people following you with baseball bats?
>Blaming the victim, tbh.
They had no right to be in the street, to be there during a state of emergency, and to violently disrupt a lawful gathering
@Virgil that sounds well and good but I'd still bet 1/2 this organization would plow through that crowd.
@Matthias Basically, ya. After experiencing just how rigged C'ville's system was against us, I felt it was just better to assume the worst for JAF, and then I'd feel no level of disappointment because I was prepared mentally for it. Now that it's done, I'm accepting of it and know the best thing to do is to look forward.
I believe you might have great discipline
But to assume you would have acted with military style calmness is not an attribute I assume most have
I do believe had Fields not made the regrettable decision to drive through the crowd he would have suffered the even more regrettable fate of being dragged from his car and beaten within an inch of his life.
I was there too, not that it matters.
Especially not some ditzy 20 year old kid
I have to get going for a couple of hours, but I want to clarify my view(my view, not IE's) and statements earlier.
Obviously the trial was an effective kangaroo court, and obviously there is a certain degree of nuance surrounding the Fields collision - You may disagree with my view on the guy, his situation and how he handled it and what else could have been done...but know I look on the situation and the guy with great sadness and pity - and nothing more.
I just don't find it productive to dwell on the case or comment on, what in my opinion, is largely Cville revisionism - both personally and for our organization.
It's up to his appeals now, and I will certainly be keeping the kid in my prayers.
What is most concerning to me is that all of the arguments made by the prosecutors were defeated by evidence.
I think if we are to ascribe any blame to Fields it's that he didn't come in a group in order to know to walk out on foot back to McIntyre. I'm not comfortable going on to speculate about what he should or shouldn't have done after he went down that street.
Perhaps, and ya I have been in 2 different wars and I guess my experience with shitty situations has helped me to come to grips with future potential shitty situations.
But they still came to the conclusion that he was guilty on *all* accounts + 30 federal hate crimes
"Cville revisionism" l o fucking l
The frogs will continue to boil.
in other news
It's evident that he experienced a modern day witch trial.
spencer called Patrick a 'creepy incel'
Ian had a good reply to that one.
@Isabella Locke-MT Our comments on that have almost as many likes as RS's post
Looks like Spencer is drunk again.
*a g a i n*
IE Gen is popping
I used to like Spencer
but he has just spiraled
Truth be told, I didn't even know he was still on twitter.
Better an "incel" (did he pick up that J-left buzzword from his author shado-, er, girlfriend?) than a drunk, adulterous, (probably) wife-beating dox-factory.
At the end of the day, nobody is disputing the fact that the trial was a sham, what people are disputing is the fact that so many people in the movement are making excuses and retroactive justifications for Fields stunning lack of self control. Let's allow blame to lie where it lies and move on.
@Isabella Locke-MT Agreed.
We dodged a bullet, when he lost his status as 'Prince of the RIght'
He used to be relevant
Now it's just sad
Everytime spencer talks about IE just post this
I should add more to this image
I think we should just ignore Spencer at this point, he's going after Patrick to draw more attention onto himself, let's not give him any more attention he deserves, which is none.
This is the future.
J U S T
The mustache is an attempt at relevance
Spencer is like the J who's been kicked out of everywhere and blames others
He looks like a pedophile with that stache