@Reinhard Wolff It takes a minute or two

@Jacob do you not?

People should bring that up more. Not so innocent.

@Nemets

@Nemets you said non human. Do you hold to the theory that Subsaharans are Homo Idaltu admixed?

Okay I wasn't meaning on spending a long time on Discord today, but I feel I need to respond to this "ethnostate" thing.

The idea behind it is good, but the term is bad. "Ethnostate" sounds too science fiction, and it sounds like we're demanding a 100.00% white homeland tomorrow. It makes an easy target to talk about how unrealistic we are.

There's more mild ways of expressing the same idea. I usually tell people that I believe every group should have a homeland where they're the clear majority. Just talk about homelands, majorities, supermajorities, etc. These sound really reasonable and not science fiction y.

@Nemets Mestizos aren't Bantu though. Aztecs!

https://www.rt.com/business/440807-zulu-king-south-africa-land/

Talk of Bantu reminded me of this. Next time someone calls SA genocide a white supremacy conspiracy let them know the Zulu think it's a real issue.

I think you underestimate the power and actually necessity of having an absolutist ideal. At the bottom of a hole it serves as a point of reference as to what "better" would be. Better would be more whites, less non whites, more promotion of tradition and less of degeneracy, more of health and less of sickness, etc. Don't get blinders on about immediate smaller issues or else the effort is all for nothing in the end @ThisIsChris

Yes but most whites don't even see themselves as white, or worse are anti white. Have to fix that first

Truth

Whites are getting less colorblind and starting to "notice".

@Ald those are all more manageable goals though and can be discussed perfectly without discussing ethnostates

Also, I think the "ethnostate" term pushes us into a false dichotomy. Opponents will often respond that it's unrealistic and therefore we shouldn't try. Of course, to us, we understand that this argument is wrong, but, it intuitively sounds reasonable without thinking about it too deeply.

Saying that what we want is "an ethnostate" makes it sound like it's 100.00% or bust, which, at best, sounds like an unrealistic goal, and, at worst, sounds like we want to throw babies into train cars.

Now, I understand that this is a stupid argument, but, we should still avoid it.

@Nemets what is the deal with Somalis? to me they seem less intelligent and physiologically stranger than west Africans.

@ThisIsChris But they all are only desirable within a framework wherein the implicit ideal is the ethnostate

@Nemets Are Zulu Bantu?

@Ald or just white flourishing generally

What do you put forward as peak white flourishing instead?

Just making it work somehow?

Why?

When we know what the best thing for our people really is

Peak white flourishing is white flourishing that exists, is real, and is stable

States, especially ethnostates, don't exist and are not stable in concept or practice

@Nemets Who are the most anti-white group in South Africa? What kind of blacks are coming for the farms?

Why does this place always get interesting this time of night when I need sleep?

Oh well night guys. Thank care.

@Jacob, I disagree. The left is always using utopian ideals, like communism. Many moderate leftists just don’t believe in such utopian ideas. But it it pushes the Overton window nonetheless. Maybe we aren’t pushing the discussion hard enough by using distancing verbiage.

Murdoch on his podcast had a great, simple approach: "Be pro white. Try to make the future for white people better, try to make your land more white and not less. Anyone who is pro white is a potential ally."

That's a great point with the Overton Window @dudelsäcke

@Jacob EFF seems top villains

What I really want to impress is that no one will stake that radical ideal for us. And the more we promote it the more acceptable everyone a little more lenient looks, pulling the overton window our way

@Jacob https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_Fighters

These bits are the biggest worry I know of.

Still, advocating for homelands for all people where they live around those they share a common culture and identity with is a more "reasonable" sounding way of expressing the same idea @dudelsäcke

Cause like, if ethnostate guys are a fact of politics, by comparison just being hard on immigration looks moderate

@ThisIsChris

@Ald That's honestly a really good point and probably the best argument I've heard in favor of the "ethnostate" strategy

Though, I think there should be a balance between pulling the Overton Window, and sounding realistic

We should sound radical but not to the point that it's science fiction y

@Jacob, I agree. But the dissident right needs a spectrum of commentators who are pushing varying degrees of our beliefs. In polite company, say “homelands” for all. But maybe IE’s place is more to the right...? I donno. From Tomi to Tucker to Lauren to... Where does IE fit?

@Ald "if ethnostate guys are a fact of politics, by comparison just being hard on immigration looks moderate" that's a big if though because "if ethnostate guys are a fact of politics" presumes they can ever be successful, which they can't in our time or place or any forseeable time and place

"Any foreseeable time and place"

@Ald IE also doesn't have to do everything. A decentralized right wing /white well being movement is anti-fragile and multiple approaches by separate groups can help even without teamwork. IE has the highest potential for growth as "good cop." We shouldn't either endorse or disavow other groups like Patriot Front. We do our thing they do theirs. An explicit ethnostate group can do their thing too.

What are we even laboring for then

If you can't foresee any time and place

where a white nation for whites is plausible

@dudelsäcke That's a good point. Maybe guys advocating for an "ethnostate" do have a place, but I think there's a strong need for something like IE

@Ald white flourishing generally. fewer specifics means opponents can't pin us down on rhetorical points

So you want plausibility but fewer specifics. I guess the ideal on that view is just "Shit be how it is"

I prefer to call it racial self-determination of sovereignty, but flourishing works too.

The existing ethnostate groups (League of the South, Northwest Front) don't have good records. If a new group rose that could only be a good thing, but it benefits IE and everyone for IE to not be too entangled in such a group.

@Ald given that things are how they are, we are working towards a better country for white people in the ways we can, and discussing ethnostates would set us back

Not really though? The fact the word ethnostate is even in the political vocabulary now is a victory

@Ald I disagree with that, it's in the voccabulary for hostile media to whip out and scare possible allies away from us

The media is blind. A lot of people hear their rhetoric and think the opposite. Even normies.

Well are we trying to accomplish something or be non threatening?

Advocating for white interests has a nice ring to it. I think that's what AmRen terms there work.

We're trying to accomplish things and we're definitely not trying to threaten anyone

What about the guys we really want to whom ethnostate sounds appealing? Who do they join? Idiot wn 1.0 type groups?

@Ald they need to do some introspection on what they really want. if they want to live in fantasy land then they shouldn't join IE

I joined IE because I see it as the most plausible vehicle for the existence and flourishing of our people, which in the end necessitates absolute homogeneity

We should have various side projects at various levels of Overton-pushing that seem unaffiliated with IE.

@Ald I would say they can join IE, but they have to portray us a certain way publicly

"I joined IE because I see it as the most plausible vehicle for the existence and flourishing of our people, which in the end necessitates absolute homogeneity" it's this "in the end necessitates absolute homogeneity" that I don't see @Ald why?

I just see it as different jobs. IE is building community and support networks, helping members grow, doing service and impactful demonstrations. Ans waking white people up.

A different group, well run by responsible leaders, COULD run an ethnostate promoting group. But IE and such a group BENEFIT MORE from not being intertwined.

@dudelsäcke interesting idea and one for the future, at the moment we really need to work on building up IE

True

Because an ethnostate group would benefit from IE's success. And IE can more easily succeed if not tied to an ethnostate

But they don’t have to be full on rallies or anything. A Twitter here, a podcast there. IE members do that stuff anyway

Too late though, right?

@dudelsäcke anything that can't be linked to IE through your identity or any other chain is your own business. I know I have anonymous twitter account so I don't have to worry about speaking as an IE member. Not that I sperg out but I wouldn't want to present something as being said by an IE member without it being approved by leadership anyway

Still

@ThisIsChris wellll I don't think that's entirely true

If someone was found saying something super depraved, they'd probably have action taken against them even if it wasn't tied to IE

Well, we don’t want to push the Overton window that far anyway. LOL

@Jacob true

@ThisIsChris Wellbeing in any sense that makes, well, sense, implies a range of minimal and maximal wellbeing. What is your idea of maximal wellbeing if not a place by and for us and us alone for our interests alone

That's my last word on it

@Nemets What do you think we should replace capitalism with?

@Ald Say you want to build a rocketship (ethnostate).
How can you do that without lots of educated engineers (awakened whites?)
IE isnthe first year engineering class.

@Nemets So socialism?

I completely agree with that @Wood-Ape - OK/MN

huh

I mean it's not a bad thing if it's socialism

Sounds familiar

I'm all for socialism

@Nemets, how did you learn so much about Africa?

Wow

I really need to read more

@Ald In <#371705962224025610> we have the document "values before policy". My idea of the maximal wellbeing is one of changing our values and our culture. Reasoning is downstream from values, politics is downstream from culture. We've had ethnostates in the past and it didn't save us from where we are now because we lost the culture. We can't choose for ourselves because our values changed. My ideal is that our values and culture are in the right place. If that's the case we will outlast many iterations of ethnostates (as Europeans did for millenia). The political policies we advocate today are more importantly a device for us to communicate to the world the result of our values and the culture we want to instill. If someone asks why we want reduced immigration, it's because that policy reflects our values. If someone asks why we want to fight heroin and opioid use, it's because that policy reflects our beliefs. Explicit policy positions are an artistic expression of the values and culture we believe in.

@Nemets thanks

@ThisIsChris I actually agree with all of that but none of it necessitates walking back on what the end result of our values being realized would be

Which isn't to say shove it in people's faces, but don't contradict it

@Jacob hey do you know about when I do my second interview with Nico?

I will message him about that

Thanks, I've been busy this weekend anyways but I was just curious

I wonder if he'd let me do the secondary interview since I'm his assistant coordinator for Eastern Washington

Good Morning IE. Time to colonize this Monday and the rest of the workweek.

About to idelibly boof on the hippocampus of this midterm with the epinephrine and dopamine from my SIPP

@Sean can you direct message me ASAP

Oh dear.

The guy isn't even royal blood... (she cheated on Prince Charles with some rich redhead).

Honestly, this just seems to be where the UK wants to go...a mixed hodgepadge of whatever brown.

It's truly disgusting.

At least she has no chance of being queen.

Lol who cares? Those kids have 0 chance at the Throne. Kate will surely pop out one or two more.

Pretty wild though, given this exact situation is what forced Wallace off the throne - marrying an American Divorcee.

"American..." 😏

@Deleted User I only care because the throne seems so important over there, that it sets trends and this is not a trend any of us want for a white nation...

NPC meme still going strong on twitter?

https://youtu.be/JvCKjgnVafM

@⚡Clark⚡ beaten to a pulp and dead

Dorsey banning NPC accounts ensured that

And PJW started memeing it

Double kill

That makes sense. Somehow I lost 50 people I was following overnight, wasn’t sure if I was just mistaken on how many I was following

Unironic NPC Twitter (media journos etc) took the NPC hard

They got it mostly swept off twitter within the weekend

Tolerant fellow even got banned

So apparently Elizabeth Warren took a DNA test and is between 1/32 and 1/512 Native American. Besides the humor of the situation, I think it's great to see people indirectly discussing the biological reality of race

So...somewhere between 0.2 and 3.0%

Lol

About as much dna as we share with chimpanzees, as humans

How long until they say 'NPC' is an anti-semetic dog whistle

GREAT NEWS (couldn't archive) http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-hate-20181014-story.html

<@&358430370137374721> I need to talk to one of you about legal issues.

@Wilhelm DM sent

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/403351956393033730/501409582854307842/1539614188181.png

Australian Senate voted to say it is not okay to be White and to not condemn anti-White racism

interesting times

Identity Australia better step up their game and capitalize on this.

This should be a relatively easy action imo. find the names of the people that voted against it, find the districts they serve (including demographics re: if they're heavily White), and hit the districts once a week with flyers of their faces and something like "I voted to condemn Whites" or a more simple "It's not okay to be White"

does IA have a website/twitter that someone can link me

@NateDahl76 DMs time bro.

Nate has talked to them online before about masks and such.

@Sam Southern - TN I believe they have an instagram

scrolled through, not bad

I’ll hit them up, they probably have taken notice

Hello epic department? I'd like to file a claim.

https://twitter.com/alessabocchi/status/1051801588271067137

nice man

also perhaps we should have something similar for vanguard etc.

keep the communication lines open

Some Welsh snob is trying to tell me Americans can’t be identitarian

lol what

why because we somehow gave up our heritage by moving to the United States?

He also tries to apply specific policies to the Identitarian label

"Lmao stupid amerimutts have no distinct american culture" -guy whos country is next in line to become welshistan

And then completely disavowed national chauvinism

@NateDahl76 Brits love giving the colonies a hard time

Purity spiral much? What is next. Being North of Hadrians wall makes you not white?

I think that tweet applies to the UK about as much as the US. Isn't the Uk a Capitalist, Imperialist, NATO supporting country?

It also seems like he's going off the "dumb redneck gun toting freedom loving warmongering American" view, you'd think someone who says they're an idententarian wouldn't be so narrow

These GI UKIRE guys are so bitter

How so?

Sorry if I'm missing the run-up; busy wage-cucking... 😑

They aren’t nearly as friendly to us as they should be, considering we are allies in the English speaking world

Run up wasn’t long

Him and a friend blame the “Identitarianism” wiki page being bad on Spencer, and then link him to us for whatever reason

Thats so dumb lol

Yeah, but you have to remember that they're living in Nineteen Eighty-Four. The Tommy Robinson #StandWithOurLads situation comes to mind. Guilt by association's really big over there. Just being known to be in formal communications with a group that participated in a rally in which a person died (regardless of the circumstances), especially after the ensuing media circus, could be damning for them...

Who cares? Do we need that guy's permission? Do we need anyone's permission but our own?

Europeans living in Europe are not automatically superior to us

I love when people think there's time for infighting now when we're all still relatively weak, there should be nothing but support for any idententarian/nationalist groups trying to insert themselves into the main stream

The only response required is "no you're wrong lol"

Ow, wow. Didn't see the screencap. Yeah, they should be taking a page from Sellner's book (barely acknowledging us, if at all).

My fav good morning image

Lol

Apparently I'm going with the boys on Thursday to the Trump rally in Missoula, should be a blast

Allow me to interject for a moment, if I may. Martin Sellner has very clearly expressed support for what we, IE, does and is doing. So perhaps it’s better to just disengage from arguments of semantics with a GI member on Twitter. 🤷‍♂️

@StevePines -WA how many of you guys are going

@Sam Anderson anyone south of Reykjavik is black

@Ald too deep

I think at least half a dozen but we're still asking around

Anti capitalist is anti creativity. If someone tells you that you can’t be “ identitarian” because of capitalism then that person is no better than a communist or socialist. The very idea of capitalism comes from creativity. This is the very difference between socialist and capitalist. Socialist think we’ve learned all we can and now it’s all about redistributing. Capitalist are all about creativity and surprise. If someone in Europe says that only Europe can tap into identitarianism that I hate to tell them but they are dead wrong. After all we Americans have one of the greatest cultures to protect in the world. Let the virtue signalers virtue signal. The guy obviously is a gimp, he also seems to think that being a identitarian mean using the lambda? Sorry, no. He just wants to hear himself speak. It’s a shame that with all that’s going on he still try’s to exclude his own people. This is what you call self indulgent extremism.

@Phillip Wiglesworth - FL I haven't kept very close tabs, but to my knowledge, he's only basically given us an attaboy once for one of our banner slogans. Other than that, radio silence.

Martin Sellner has said he's fine with Jewish influence and miscegenation hasn't he

oof if true

To be fair, people say capitalism when they mean consumerism and corporatism. Capitalism on a small scale is fine

We need to be the leaders then

but I think they play it how they have to to survive right now

Martin should not be a leader if that's what he believes

Silence is better than active cuckoldry

you can't preserve your people if you're racially mixing them...

IIRC when GI in Germany were covered by some outlet they said miscegenation is a personal choice they wouldn't hinder

Idk if it was Sellner

miscegenation is totally unacceptable

Yeah, that's like baseline

let's slow down

@wayne peek Eh, I don't know, dude. I think that we need to distinguish between maximizing the freedom of domestic markets, and capitalism. Capitalism presupposes corporate structures that are only possible based upon laws that fallaciously equate corporations with people. Whenever you follow something with an "-ist" or "-ism," the implication is that that's the most important consideration, to which others must be subordinated, and I think we can all agree that one of the contributing reasons for us all being in this thing is our conviction that the interests of our people should be elevated above those of capital...

There are a number of things they cannot and will not address publicly

^

Someone link me to where GI/Sellner expresses a lack of caring about miscegenation. I find that incredibly hard to believe.

Then they could stay silent or talk around it

he doesn't

Yea they could get thrown in jail actually

and if he's addressing the general public, yeah I'd say the same thing

if they say the wrong things

y'all forget the pseudo-authoritarian state in eu

@Ald To be fair, that sounds like more of a political answer to a silly question, rather than an actual policy. Plus I'd imagine that miscegenation isn't really an issue in Germany or Austria

but for our in group, it's unacceptable

no one has to know that

except us

Any miscegenation at all is a problem @Virgil

No one here disagrees, which is what is the most important thing to remember.

"what about miscegenation for members?" "Well this is an identitarian and European group. I think that question answers itself. It's a personal choice for people at large, but this is about us."

easy answer

He didn't have to say the at large bit

That's my take

not sellner

You then

Dude you know what I bet Mossad was behind that assassination of that journalist in Saudi Arabia

IIRC he's never addressed such a question

@Ald Agreed, but it is a potential side issue that could derail the main issue of immigration. Miscegenation is an issue that should be tackled once we have some actual power.

Even if we ended all non white immigration miscegenation would be an existential threat, so yes

@Lawrence - TX is correct. GI faces inprisonment for mere words. They don’t have the same freedoms we have. So their leadership must be much more careful in direct expression.

I'm well past making prescriptions for people that don't want to survive or preserve themselves. It's not my fight. I grant those "of our own" that want to transcend their own identities and eschew their ancestry/lineage. They deny themselves something so very fundamental to the human experience. C'est la vie

May as well call them transhumans

@Procella Eques for what reason?

Sellner is solid

@Bjorn - MD I’m not here to debate the semantics of capitalism. Just pointing out the lad doesn’t know what he is talking about and the identitarian fight isn’t about that. Trust me. I know lots of guys in GI. Speak with the almost everyday. This kid doesn’t know what he is talking about.

People use capitalism to mean two different things. The first is simply primarily private ownership of the means of production which all the "socialist" W Euro countries have. The second and more common usage in these circles is rule of capital, global laissez faire, etc

@Sam Southern - TN create a rift between the US and Saudi alliance

Also, are you saying that China doesn’t have corporate structures?

They do.

rely solely on israel for middle east

Israel wants to dominate the entire middle east

I mean alternately we dump both countries though, in the vacuum of Saudi v Israel and you remove Saudi, yeah in the current paradigm we are stuck with israel

GI has to be somewhat covert

@Procella Eques the Israelis and the House of Saud are closely allied

They need the Saudis

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/10/14/somali-whose-deportation-was-thwarted-by-passenger-mutiny-is-gang-rapist-linked-to-isis-fighter/

Weaponized NPCs.

Capitalism is fine on a small scale, dealing with small family businesses, but I think pursuing a more socialist agenda when dealing fortune 500 companies and hedge funds is preferable.

@Bjorn - MD Oh, I see. Looks like I missed some of the context. Yeah, it does look like he's using a bit of poetic license, rather than sticking to Sellner's line [there's a difference between emphasizing GI's being a minimum-consensus organization (i.e. no position on capitalism) and stating that you're outright *anti*-capitalist."] I gotcha.

@Virgil I see what you mean, but family businesses are usually either sole propropietorships or partnerships, which are models that predate capitalism. As far as Fortune 500 companies and hedge funds, I don't know about ""socialist," just because that word's so stigmatized and vague (i.e. Marxian vs. Prussian/Spenglerian socialism), but I agree with where I think you're going with that. I think the state has a vital role in international trade, and may well have one in limiting the undue influence of international capital, though I'm obviously also wary of international capital's ability to simply capture the state as well...

GI doesn't live in anything remotely like free countries. We have problems, but nothing as bad. You have to expect and accept a degree of huwyte taqiyya and hemming/hawhing about the hard racial survival stuff from them.

You get to make wide sweeping "policy" prescriptions when you're in power.

Did the left start with that, or did they start with, "try this it's fun and enlightening."

That said VargTurd Euros that hate white Americans (or deny white Americans' existence) should just be ignored. Let them help themselves while IE does its work.

Running around and telling off all of the miscengenators is a bad look, and it's not going to help our cause

I'm not super familiar on what specifically could qualify as hate speech but it would be better to remain silent on the more illegal positions to take than actively contradict them

@Lawrence - TX Their elites definitely must've had some fairly fleshed out designs beforehand, but I imagine that for many of the cadres, and most of the rank and file, it was probably the latter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cQfSjubvD0

Not very eventful at the moment; they may already have gone in...

even if they killed the dude, zero chance the Turkish police find anything

@Sam Southern - TN Yeah, I'm leaning that way myself...

@Bjorn - MD possibly. Doesn't really matter though, we're here now. The importance is understanding that we need an effective and flexible strategy going forward. When we need to be vague, we should be vague.

few see it now, but this is pretext for reconquista of Constantinople <:coolpepe:366743374105018368>

@Lawrence - TX Yeah, I agree. I'm not going to cast out aspersions again those who disagree with me; just stirrin' the pot a little... 😎

I got you fam