#general (Discord ID: 481597551272001546) in Nice Respectable People Group, page 138
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I don't know. I like the V.\
Because I’ve never given it any thought
Even if we are optics cucks, it's important not to distance ourselves too far from Charlottsville because otherwise you might invite people into our organization that won't appreciate it.
I'm going to say it: Red, white, and blue.... is **Boring.**
Regardless of the situation, our name will eventually be slandered again.
i'm in favor of renaming the group *Amerimutts United* with a rainbow powerfist as our symbol
literally every politician uses red/white/blue for their logos.
It literally doesn't matter.
It would just have to be the overall palette. Nothin' says we couldn't spruce it up with a little originality here and there...
Just needs to be recognizably American.
Maybe but red white and blue has the advantage of being meaningful to everyone whereas a teal triangle is also boring and conveys nothing to practically everyone
@Asatru Artist - MD It would be much easier to attract funding and humam capital if we rebranded. If we think that's optics cucking, we will always be a fringe group.
Changing the IE logo wouldn't get any of the Leftist outlets to stop calling us white supremacists.
they aren't concerned with media, they want more people
It would only end up confusing the normies and have boring civnats trying to get in our organization.
i just want the *right* people
I should mention, that Generation Identity uses a Greek symbol, with a Black/Yellow aesthetic, and they are doing **amazing** all over Europe
Because they carry themselves incredibly well, and prove the name slandering wrong
but in all seriousness, a rebrand doesn't have to be drastic.
for example, i've never been keen on the color teal and think red, white, and blue would have been better choices to catch the "pro-american" types
we'll only have sympathetic media attention when these outlets literally have no choice.
but to accept us and our ways
i guess if we can get a ton of civnat tier whites in to give us more capital to work with to spread our message, and leadership stays the course, its whatever...
parts of the organization's imagery could slowly be swapped out
Even if you compare our optics to those of GI, the latter uses an ancient, but bold color scheme with regal origins (black and gold), whereas notwithstanding my own fondness for our color scheme, it's kind of fashwave-esque, and therefore specific to a particular time and subculture.
@Asatru Artist - MD Why not have them just donate to us? <:teehee:381917632359563264>
but a rebrand shouldn't concern any members because the foundation and structure of the IE network will remain intact.
does putting on a new hat change who's wearing it?
@Bjorn - MD Our logo is also ancient, Germanic, and uses a nice, modern aesthetic tho
@Rabbidsith Tucker isn't cucked and Breitbart has a large following that could potentially support us
We need to maintain our own brand. That in itself has meaning and recognition
@Goose yes, the minute you put on a MAGA hat, you go full fasc, put on an antifa hat, you go full soy <:teehee:381917632359563264>
@Virgil Yeah but the rest of Fox is cucked and Breitbart isn't going to support us until we have a lot more power.
Agreed, but the lambda is far more well-known and recognizable, and right or wrong (wrong), Greco-Roman semiotics occupies a position of greater notability and prestige than Germanic, even in Germanic Europe, and Germany itself.
I'm afraid people will associate an "Explicitly American group wanting to defend it's borders and maintain a White majority" with another group. It's to easy to make the comparison if we were explicitly American
Rebranding would lose what name recognition we have, make our already printed stickers and flyers unusable, and seem like we gave up who we are to court civnats.
The only reason to rebrand is if we somehow lose the C-ville lawsuit, imo
@The Eternal Anglo Only if we develop our own unique lexicon, and insist that every word therein begin with the same consonant, lol.
I doubt that these people are going to give a shit until we have 10,000 members.
*the mainstream media
@Rabbidsith Right but the question is how do we get more power, by getting investors and capital. Which would be much easier if we had a name that was more marketable to the average American and potential investors.
they already give a sh*t and we have around 1000....
The face of us being a fraternity for European Americans, not only is that a great description of us, but it also negates any comparison people may want to make of us to nasty 1.0 organisations. It's very cunning and sly
@Virgil I agree that we need investors and capital. However, losing what little brand recognition we have isn't conducive to that end.
@Virgil Well most of our money is going to the Cvill lawsuit, but once that's done and over with, it's easy flying
Evropa is also American because LARPing as Romans is an American tradition dating back to the founding fathers
toga toga toga!
Like I said, I'm not married to any particular means. If you think about things from another perspective, Generation Identity was a pretty unprecedented brand, and required a healthy amount explanation itself. Even if we were to retain the same title, though, at bare minimum, the color scheme would probably have to evolve over time.
We're paying off a lawsuit **and** still doing huge events all around the Country, I'd say we're doing *just* fine on capital.
Monetary capital is not the only thing we need, social capital as well. Rebranding would make us lose one of the two essential buildings blocks we need to succeed to power.
...and the Dragon's Eye is probably too esoteric. There are plenty of recognizably American symbols that are pretty edgy.
@Rabbidsith By keeping the logo and the Identity part of our name, we wouldn't lose much in the way of brand recognition. Identity Columbia has a certain European and American ring to it that people can get behind.
why not keep IE AND plant some seeds for a "new" org?
i know it would require much more work, but we could alwyas jump ship if need be
When I hear "Colombia" I think of the third world hellhole of Colombia, no offense
But keeping the name
@Bjorn - MD The fact that nobody has heard of identitarianism is both a blessing and a curse. On one hand, it makes it hard to do the elevator pitch.
On the other, it allows us to explain what we stand for on our terms. Abandoning it for Americanism where we have to clarify that Americanism risks looking either civnat or WN 1.0 Overall, one of our greatest assets is that we define ourselves, not anyone who came before us.
@Nemets Agreed. I'm just saying that the homophone factor could get dodgy.
fortune 500 companies spend millions if not billions on rebranding.
it's usually done incrimentally or drastically, depending on the severity of need due to market or PR problems.
right now we are in a good spot (for now), but small adjustments down the line couldn't hurt
I was talking about Columbia, lol.
That he was.
@TMatthews I think the beautiful thing about that is the fact that we control the entire Identitarian movement by ourselves, which is a rare blessing.
Colombia *is* great optics, though...
I mean, we could just appropriate the great American figures in our activism and flyers
if we were to use past presidents, might i suggest Andrew Jackson?
american af, broke the bank, and DT's favorite.
plus, the left is constantly trying to remove his statue in varying locations
@The Eternal Anglo It's pretty much just us and GI (who also have good optics). Everybody else, especially PF just tries to copy us
"Columbia" is even more confusing to normies than "EVropa"
@TMatthews A sign that what we are doing is perfect <:deye:359010025223618570>
@The Eternal Anglo We don't have to appropriate what's already *ours*... 😎
We could change our name to Fraternity of American Traditionalism
@The Eternal Anglo Columbia is a romantic name for America and has a long history of usage here in the US. Afterall our Capital and numerous other large cities and areas are named Columbia.
Traditionalism needs a year or two more distance from TWP
Or FAT for short
@Nemets I'm partial to Jackson myself, but GW would make for a clearer claim to continuity.
Columbia is as foreign to most Americans as the idea of American only meaning whites
I didn't want to say it, but yeah, I've lived here for half my life and never heard 'Columbia' in a significant sense to normies
@TMatthews Columbia has little name recognition at this point, but her image is familiar.
We could change our name to a recursive function call that spells out our manifesto
We could bring back Mrs. America, the lady with the shield
So Identity Slavropa is off the table ?
regardless of people's thoughts about WWII, the war propaganda posters use pretty solid imagery
I just though you meant that he was an overall Germanophile.
Strong woman imagery to own the feminists?
@Goose wondering how media would cry about the optics of using allied inspired poster images
Some sort of stylized eagle would not be a bad logo actually
Eagle = nahtzee
Eagle was NatSoc, even if it was also USA and Rome
I think the American woman with the shield would bring in a lot of Wamen, which would carry our organisation to the Mainstream better than we ever could
Not gonna fly well with normies
@Nemets Huh. Didn't know that. Did you ever hear McFeels' and Ethnarch's deep-dive about how he single-handedly started the French and Indian War, lol?
Yeah maybe. Stupid since it’s already an american symbol but prob right
Definitely @Goose "wait a minute, this isn't German what do we do now"
Washington was the second richest guy in the colonies (behind Morris)
Our symbol could be a blonde trump toupe
Oh I do like the woman Columbia though, still has that Greco-Roman feel too
seeing the hammer and sickle up there disgusts me
A lot of these questions can be addressed by a new poster campaign.
Norman Rockwell / Hudson River school art / Columbia art on posters
How about the American flag with a dragons eye where the stars are?
@ThisIsChris That's her, yeah, she would be an amazing figure-head to appropriate
Red white and teal ! <:deye:359010025223618570> 🇺🇸
I would keep the flag blue. Just a DEye
I don't think the American flag should be altered
Yeah I'm hesitant to do anything that may insult the US flag
Good point. I guess it would trigger vets
Just trying to split the differences being discussed here
It's really hard for normies to be against a beautiful, traditional woman
current year would disagree with you...
...and if we wanted to have a nice, esoteric giggle to ourselves, we can have her wearing a Phrygian cap 😎
I say make Americana posters, keep name and logo for now.
The thing I like about Coloumbia, too, is that she hearkens back to the rugged individualism/still not-quite-settled, territorial West/Teddy Roosevelt era.
Yeah too bad no one knows that Columbia is another name for America these days
The obviously havent played bioshock infinite
you can thank modern public "education" for that
There is something very cool about triangular shapes. It brings to my mind thoughts of a phalanx in wedge formation...
...to say nothing of the Pagan implications.
@MrDefault Played the demos of 1 and 2. Those were some pretty awesome aesthetics...
Very art deco-meets-cyberpunk.
The interesting thing I like about the dragon's eye, is that it has several sharp points in a uniformed fashion, which can call out an aggressive feeling when people observe it, but due to the calming colour scheme, the aggressive feelings are negated, and instead you have an easy-on-the-eyes, clean, calming, yet assertive logo.
Yeah 1 and 2 are what happens when individualism runs rampant and kills the city more so 1 then 2
@The Eternal Anglo From the research I've done on color theory and the dragons eye itself, this is exactly the purpose.
@TMatthews "appealing to civnats" is a pretty disengenous framing of a reason to change. It's more like, putting **normal** imagery and **normal colors** and **normal** branding to our very **normal** views.
I take it then you are comfortable telling friends and family that you are in an organization who's former leader said, and I quote *"this is a sign that we have moved into a new era in the Nazification of America. "*
and *I work in HR firing niggers and spics all day. Before that I was in the army and I got to kill Muslims for fun. I’m not sure which one was better, watching niggers and spics cry they can’t feed their little mud children or watching Muslims’ brains sprayed on the wall. Honestly both probably suck compared to listening to a kike scream…*
You cool with telling Mom and Dad that you are part of that organization, or do you keep it a secret, making up excuses as to why you're leaving the house for 5 hours on a Sunday?
I 'm not, and I have paid the social cost more that I hope anyone should have to for our relatively benign views (not making myself a martyr here, just stating facts).
Wouldn't it be cool to have a normie friendly organization without violent rhetoric, a deadly rally and actual promotion of Nazi ideology?(regardless whether or not it was tongue in cheek). An organization that you could be proud to tell your boss that you were in, or your parents, or some stranger on a plane.
That vision may not happen with a new organization, but it CERTAINLY will NEVER happen with Identity Evropa. A few hundred dollar loss on flyering materials + merch, a new website, keep the twitter, the logistics are fairly simple. Lots of reasons to restart and very little to lose.
Holy wall of text Batman
lol sorry at lunch
Not having a go at Tmatthews btw, just wanted to articulate my thoughts.
SOO many reasons to make a new org, and very few downsides in my mind.
@Deleted User Holy crap. I had definitely heard him indulge in a few faux pas, but didn't realize it was anything near that egregious...
Also, you know, lying about going to war.
Most Americans think that's pretty unchill.
@Deleted User okay, you convinced me. Where do I sign?
I knew he wasn't fit for I.E but... dang, that's intense
ADLSPLC voxvicemicbuzzfeed will know it's us and just refer to us as "_____, pathetically rebranded Identity Evropa"
does anyone really even remember Eli though <:really:453005408064241674> <:teehee:381917632359563264>
The media does.
and is all but forgotten
but yeah, they can drudge that all back up
"Identity Columbia" sounds like "Identity Venezuela"
but never do
they go to the ADL/SPLC links...
If we're gonna change the name, let's not do that one
He isn’t forgotten, every time the media does an extensive hit piece.
Honestly I thought we dropped all the baggage of previous leaders' bad mistakes already, though I may be wrong
Men of the West?
Thoughts on Identity Americana?
West = implies America and Europe both
I've thrown out "America First Initiative" before.
didn't someone say Americana is America in spanish or something? I don't speak border jumper...
@Grossly Incandescent Not bad, we should definitely use Columbia woman as a mascot though
@Jacob *Scoffs* Colombia and Venezuela are like night and day... The former has muh free(r) markets... The fact that they're both sh#tholes is merely a coincidence, or a product of geography, rather than the fact that they share near-identical gene pools... 😏
@Wood-Ape - OK/MN Sure, and again, media reception is but one of many reasons to start anew. The more steps one must take to tie us to really atrocious statements or behavior, the more tenuous the link seems.
Spanish is a European language
No dude this may be surprising to you, but Spanish Is a language spoken in Spain. A country in Europe
The continent were named after
i understand that, but the invaders speak the same basic language at this point
Compare the number of Spaniards to Mestizos.
@Grossly Incandescent Yeah, that's actually occurred to me, too. It does have a ring, but I feel like it has at least one too many syllables to be a (*metaphorical*) war cry, lol.
So the romance language of Spain should just be considered the language of a foreign people? We're just going to disregard it as lost and speak derisively of it?
@Grossly Incandescent Identity Americana sound okay. I personally don't like the civnat ring it has to it and Ian might yell at me for saying this, but I get his point and I respect his opinion.
Central Americans speak gutter spanish anyhow lol
the Ebonics of Spanish
Same could be said for German or French pretty soon if things don't Go our way. @Asatru Artist - MD
A bastardized spanish not dissimilar to how Low income blacks speak english
"Western Identity" I think has all the right notes.
English is a fallen language we should all speak latin
To be honest, I don't think I'd be here today if I saw a poster for a group that came off as civnat
@Kingfish Plenty of sand people already speak German and French. 😢
It is American but implicit white, and european
@MrDefault The non-whites would just switch to Latin to leach off us again.
@Asatru Artist - MD I agree but I wouldn't be so quick to derisively refer to it as an invading language
Of foreign people.
didn't know border jumper would trigger people 😂
What if we rebranded to Identity Europa and drop the V
@Deleted User Based on the statements above: Patrick has been doing very well with giving us a better name, he's been getting all sorts of interviews on youtube with various significant figures, with similar, non-larpy views. We even got Jared to still advocate for us, despite the recent history with previous leadership.... though the history is there, I would argue that the baggage of the previous mistakes have lightened up, at least a little up for sure. My concern is if any of the previous baggage would come up to bite us way later down the road, though
Is that a serious suggestion?
Sorry pal I'm very thin skinned <:really:453005408064241674>
still has the baggage ^ (mr default)
@Jacob We' d be reclaiming the american name and culture from the civnats
"Society of Friends"
@The Eternal Anglo baggage certainly could, but it would be harder - again just one of many, many reasons to make a new org.
We don't have enough influence to reclaim anything right now
We need to reclaim influence first
@Deleted User I get what you're saying, but no matter what we call ourselves we'll be labeled supremacists by the ADL/SPLC. There is no way to be part of any pro-white organization without the risk of losing friends, family, career, etc. Hopefully that changes at some point, and I think it will as white identity politics inevitably gains steam, but a new name won't drastically alter how we're viewed
I don't mind using the Civnats as a PR shield. Plausible deniability can be a good thing.
Some like to claim that Mexico is part of North America. Personally, I can't help but perceive it as an ethnocultural boundary, rather than a geographical one. Technically, the Americas are all one continent anyway, so it's otherwise ultimately arbitrary...
GI is like half civnats half our guys
@TMatthews It absolutely will. The ADL can call us whatever they like, but unless they have some manner of evidence, their claims fall short. Right now they can DIRECTLY tie us to David Duke, and a leader who glorified killing minorities and the nazification of america - they don't even have to lie.
Oh, sorry. I'm still in the bastardized Spanish convo 😂
Identity America or something similar isn't really a *bad* name, but it definitely doesn't have the same appeal
I've tossed out "American Identity Movement"
I just want White Americans to wake up and have a home for themselves, nothing else matters to me at this point except to get a home for us, safely, effectively, and efficiently
@John Riggs Problem is when it becomes so deniable that our guys don't even apply
Donth thpeak that bathterdithed thpanith. Thpeak cathtilliano
Lots of good suggestions out there
@Deleted User We're part of a group exclusively for non-Semitic whites. That alone is enough to earn us the "neo-nazi" label in the eyes of most people. Unless you change fundamental policy/ideology, I don't think the name change does much, and the kinds of changes that would require are very much in the civnat direction unfortunately
It's a fine line but shouldn't be impossible to dog whistle to our guys while still remaining 'family friendly' to the general public
>Semitic Whites... 😏
To be entirely honest, I think taking a more populist or American Nationalist rhetoric would yield far more results. Rebranding and aligning ourselves with the Tucker Carlsons and the Anne Coulters will immediately get us more air time and relatively more positive media coverage. I think We would also increase our base significantly. Giving these Trump movement types who are really too edgy for Republicans but not wignats a home gives us places to grow and mold a movement. In all honesty and I mean this with great respect, I'm not sure how much passion such an academic term and concept like Identitarian means to a patriotic right wing American with tangible problems we can help Solve. We can be Identitarians and care about identity, but creating a movement based on identity doesn't do as much as acting on it. The Trump Movement is a pretty untapped grassroots resource we could tap into hard with a solid rebrand and slight transition of rhetoric.
A change to American Identity Movement or something like that wouldn't be a big deal either way, I think, so long as we can maintain a unique brand (identitarianism)
Not saying I want a rebrand of any sorts... but if we ever do rebrand, I'd hope our vetting process is still top notch.
@Kingfish Yeah, but we also have to be cognizant of the fact that Queen Ann and Tucker are, at least in part, lagging indicators of the headway that we make, so long as we don't screw up.
@Kingfish When does that "slight transition of rhetoric" land us as full on civnats 10 years down the line though?
Also we should just move the overton window far enough where **WE** are the only sensible option, not the other way around
We don't have to be Identitarian spergs, but if we lose our vision and mission (ever so slowly), what was the point?
I don't think we'd lose anything.
The slippery slope is real for all things.
Tucker is able to talk about race as much as he does specifically by framing it as "the left is obsessed with race and we should all just be individuals"
As a group built around a collective identity, we can't do that without giving up the essence of what we stand for
Daaang... Random aside, but check out GI, uppin' their flyer game... (Translation: "This is Christoph Heusgen, 'your' traitor at the UN. In 'your name,' he will sign the 'Migration Pact' on 12/11. That means the following: Opening for ...244 million migrants, free entry into the social [security] system for migrants, sanctions for 'intolerant' critics,' etc., etc.")