#piraeus_politics_news (Discord ID: 613769782461857813) in Athens, page 50


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2019-09-09 06:47:07 UTC

You're such a progressivist

2019-09-09 06:47:28 UTC

seeing differences isn't the same as just deciding cunt child is a cunt because of their race

2019-09-09 06:47:36 UTC

I didn't say that

2019-09-09 06:47:42 UTC

you literally fuucking did

2019-09-09 06:47:44 UTC

No I did not

2019-09-09 06:48:01 UTC

No, there are variations in how different groups behave, based on what behaviors are normalized and reinforced among the groups. Here in the U.S., for example, we have the issue of black kids being bullied by their peers (fellow blacks) for participation at school, which is obviously counter to logic as they'll have less economic mobility by proliferating such norms throughout their culture by associating it with their music, films, etc.

2019-09-09 06:48:04 UTC

you're saying cunt child's race should have ocurred to me when dealing with it.

2019-09-09 06:48:50 UTC

Many groups will also rebel against the predominant norms associated with the majority group, even if it harms their own interests. It's a very common behavior.

2019-09-09 06:49:21 UTC

A) noticing that a cunt is of a certain race
B) noticing that a race does cunt things
See the difference?

2019-09-09 06:49:31 UTC

You say I did B, but I did not

2019-09-09 06:49:33 UTC

I did A

2019-09-09 06:50:23 UTC

then why should specific attention be paid to their race when the more important detail is they're being a cunt

2019-09-09 06:50:40 UTC

People's brains instinctively pick up on it

2019-09-09 06:50:41 UTC

Because those behaviors are reinforced among peers.

2019-09-09 06:50:45 UTC

not an answer

2019-09-09 06:50:54 UTC

But that is all I said

2019-09-09 06:50:56 UTC

why should I have taken cunt's race into account

2019-09-09 06:51:03 UTC

I only said it's normal to pick up on these differences

2019-09-09 06:51:15 UTC

you said I should have taken it into account

2019-09-09 06:51:21 UTC

I said you should've noticed it

2019-09-09 06:51:27 UTC

Because it's normal to notice it

2019-09-09 06:51:40 UTC

you're such a fucking weasel

2019-09-09 06:51:43 UTC

I'm not

2019-09-09 06:52:34 UTC

This a phenomenon in psychology

2019-09-09 06:52:57 UTC

It is the greatest contributing factor to how an identity group behaves, as people within the group have greater influence on one another than those perceived to be on the outside. Ascribed status, such as race and gender top the hierarchy in this regard.

2019-09-09 06:53:08 UTC

For example, my dad used to beat me. As time progressed, I learned to fear men who had similar looks as him. From his facial features to the way he dressed to details in his mannerisms.

2019-09-09 06:53:16 UTC

If I noticed similar things, I avoided those men

2019-09-09 06:53:20 UTC

That's instinct

2019-09-09 06:53:27 UTC

Of course.

2019-09-09 06:53:31 UTC

As you should.

2019-09-09 06:53:34 UTC

Correct

2019-09-09 06:53:42 UTC

versus a single cunty classmate

2019-09-09 06:53:51 UTC

Kids can't make the distinction that these things don't mean anything *neccessarily*

2019-09-09 06:53:54 UTC

in fucking grade school

2019-09-09 06:53:59 UTC

So they broadly profile people just to be safe

2019-09-09 06:54:10 UTC

This is a perfectly normal thing to do

2019-09-09 06:54:48 UTC

Everyone does it.

2019-09-09 06:54:57 UTC

no, according to you its the comparatively "strong" thing to do

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613769782461857813/620512448792887297/069aaee532e5aea3698a55e86d9c8928.png

2019-09-09 06:55:19 UTC

Yes, as I just explained. You can't protect yourself from something that you can't notice.

2019-09-09 06:55:34 UTC

protect myself from a whinging little shit kid classmate?

2019-09-09 06:55:37 UTC

oh perish the thought

2019-09-09 06:55:41 UTC

For example

2019-09-09 06:56:23 UTC

The conclusion may be different. Maybe you respond only to that one bully, but maybe you also look for patterns.

2019-09-09 06:56:42 UTC

My brain looked for obvious patterns, for example in the case of my dad.

2019-09-09 06:56:45 UTC

wasn't even a bully, he just wouldn't shut the fuck up and leave me alone

2019-09-09 06:56:55 UTC

Well alright

2019-09-09 06:57:04 UTC

That's not the biggest deal then

2019-09-09 06:57:33 UTC

Oregon schools didn't really have bullies, they had ratty little provacative shits who just drew you out into faculty's line of sight so suddenly you're the bad guy

2019-09-09 06:57:39 UTC

Would anyone here avoid a 20-man sized group toting ISIS flags?

2019-09-09 06:57:47 UTC

100%

2019-09-09 06:57:50 UTC

Alright.

2019-09-09 06:57:51 UTC

Thanks.

2019-09-09 06:57:53 UTC

Wouldn't even think twice

2019-09-09 06:58:01 UTC

I'd pick up my AR and start shooting.

2019-09-09 06:58:05 UTC

depends if I was armed

2019-09-09 06:58:12 UTC

Exactly.

2019-09-09 06:59:20 UTC

It's an extreme example, but that's based on what you know of them.

2019-09-09 06:59:27 UTC

So, that's a form of discrimination, is it not?

2019-09-09 06:59:54 UTC

ISIS is an ideology. anyone could be under that flag.

2019-09-09 07:00:10 UTC

plausibly

2019-09-09 07:00:24 UTC

brood's whinging about race and shit

2019-09-09 07:01:15 UTC

Fair enough, but we all know who it is most strongly associated with, the pattern so to speak.

2019-09-09 07:01:49 UTC

except the argument against similar race baiters on the left is that Islam isn't a race

2019-09-09 07:01:54 UTC

I'm not whinging about race you fool

2019-09-09 07:02:09 UTC

sound pretty fuckin whingey

2019-09-09 07:02:22 UTC

And, you are still basing your decision upon material observations, however.

2019-09-09 07:02:25 UTC

I specifically mentioned that my experiences with race were unimportant, I said non-immigrant kids were about the same

2019-09-09 07:02:40 UTC

However, there are differences when immigration is not controlled properly

2019-09-09 07:02:47 UTC

As was the case with Turks in Vienna

2019-09-09 07:02:55 UTC

so then why the fuck should my experiences suddenly merit attention to the race of my opponents?

2019-09-09 07:03:37 UTC

if race was so fucking unimportant in your case why the fuck does it have to be important in mine?

2019-09-09 07:03:49 UTC

are you drunk?!

2019-09-09 07:03:50 UTC

The less mature the brain is, the more important it is that we pick up on obvious objective features and other information like behavioral patterns etc.

2019-09-09 07:04:15 UTC

Kids need to protect themselves by picking up on outward features, so they like or dislike, trust or distrust people due to simple things

2019-09-09 07:04:38 UTC

Because, if it is a behavior that is normalized and reinforced as a value among the group, race inextricably becomes the way to resolve the problem, as it is then a social cancer to the group that can only be addressed by socializing them with peers and propaganda rejecting the behaviors. You'd have to use people from their own group to do it.

2019-09-09 07:04:48 UTC

so I need to distrust black people because one was an obnoxious cunt in grade school?!

2019-09-09 07:04:52 UTC

In some cases this will result in them seeing race as a problem, and we can only correct that if we expose them to the broader group

2019-09-09 07:04:59 UTC

fucks sake, you are drunk

2019-09-09 07:05:06 UTC

No I never said we need to distrust a race you sophist

2019-09-09 07:05:13 UTC

You're lying out of your ass as usual

2019-09-09 07:05:22 UTC

I'm indifferent towards race

2019-09-09 07:05:36 UTC

your own fucking words, dude

2019-09-09 07:05:39 UTC

And?

2019-09-09 07:05:43 UTC

Where does it say "race bad"

2019-09-09 07:06:06 UTC

you literally said kids need to learn to distrust over this shit

2019-09-09 07:06:15 UTC

I did not

2019-09-09 07:06:30 UTC

That doesn't support your argument

2019-09-09 07:07:00 UTC

If anything, I'm the one defending race as something you should recognize, because it can be leveraged to resolve problems among the groups by encouraging positive cultural icons of their group to influence them into conformity to the norms and values of the majority.

2019-09-09 07:07:10 UTC

your own words suddenly don't count as evidence? holy fuck, sober up in the morning and try again, dude

2019-09-09 07:07:31 UTC

Point me to the quote where I say people of a certain race are bad

2019-09-09 07:08:11 UTC

you said kids need to learn distrust over "simple things" and was referring to outward characteristics such as race

2019-09-09 07:08:18 UTC

No I did not

2019-09-09 07:08:34 UTC

motherfucker I can only post your own quote so many fucking times

2019-09-09 07:08:41 UTC

You can keep posting it, you're still wrong

2019-09-09 07:09:03 UTC

The quote says something different, you lack the comprehension skills to get that apparently

2019-09-09 07:09:13 UTC

Or you just don't WANT to comprehend

2019-09-09 07:09:26 UTC

Or you lack comprehension of the english fucking language

2019-09-09 07:09:31 UTC

Or you're just wrong, as usual

2019-09-09 07:09:37 UTC

this is why pols need to be resegregated, tbh

2019-09-09 07:09:51 UTC

Yeah lets segregate it from you

2019-09-09 07:09:57 UTC

You always misintepret my words

2019-09-09 07:09:59 UTC

Like clockwork

2019-09-09 07:10:30 UTC

lets recap, because the weasel thinks its cute

2019-09-09 07:10:38 UTC

I told an anecdote where a child was a cunt

2019-09-09 07:10:45 UTC

and happened to be a different race

2019-09-09 07:10:50 UTC

and how it was unimportant

2019-09-09 07:10:59 UTC

you fucking decide race is important

2019-09-09 07:11:02 UTC

Wrong

2019-09-09 07:11:29 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613769782461857813/620516607688441866/15865a1299460f0a5fce0e488a1f9d59.png

2019-09-09 07:11:29 UTC

A) Noticing race is normal
B) Race is important

2019-09-09 07:11:33 UTC

your very next fucking post

2019-09-09 07:11:38 UTC

You're still wrong

2019-09-09 07:11:44 UTC

getting real tired of being your fucking sternographer, cunt

2019-09-09 07:11:44 UTC

That quote does not prove your point

2019-09-09 07:12:03 UTC

Anecdotes are not reflective of statistical accuracy, Joker... You know this.

2019-09-09 07:12:12 UTC

I know, yes

2019-09-09 07:12:16 UTC

Never said it wasn't so

2019-09-09 07:12:40 UTC

Or were you talking to Jokerfaic?

2019-09-09 07:12:50 UTC

I also know I'm not "less safe" for not having automatically assumed a shit classmate was shit because he fucking looked different

2019-09-09 07:12:53 UTC

What would be the more accurate view would be to identify what behaviors not fit for a civilized society are most predominantly associated with a specific group, then use positive cultural icons to reinforce alternative behaviors that are.

2019-09-09 07:13:03 UTC

I said specifically

2019-09-09 07:13:14 UTC

If you do not pick up on outward appearances and stuff like that, you're less safe

2019-09-09 07:13:22 UTC

The brain does this automatically

2019-09-09 07:13:26 UTC

But, this extends into a much larger debate to be had.

2019-09-09 07:13:47 UTC

Whether or not we desire cultural reforms and such.

2019-09-09 07:14:00 UTC

I'm not condoning racism, I'm explaining it

2019-09-09 07:14:12 UTC

And I know a solution for it

2019-09-09 07:14:52 UTC

I think everyone is just too paranoid we're going to declare a final solution, rather than have a reasonable dialogue that doesn't require genocide.

2019-09-09 07:15:03 UTC

phrasing it as "safe" or "unsafe" or "weak" and shit is a good way to make your ideology sound fucking combative

2019-09-09 07:15:03 UTC

I doubt that

2019-09-09 07:15:09 UTC

So, race altogether is avoided as a result.

2019-09-09 07:15:17 UTC

I never phrased "lack of racism" as a weakness

2019-09-09 07:15:24 UTC

That's you misinterpreting what I say

2019-09-09 07:16:41 UTC

Well, ET, that's the historical trend of recognizing racial differences, rather than reforming the culture associated with the race. Thus, you have a fear of discussing race with clear eyes.

2019-09-09 07:17:19 UTC

I have a fear of people who discuss race, because they like to misintrepret what I say

2019-09-09 07:18:08 UTC

discussion about race and objective observations between racial divides can be had without making it sound like a fucking conflict

2019-09-09 07:18:24 UTC

I believe racism can be solved by simply bringing people together, so they learn from direct and personal experiences that the larger group of whatever race they're afraid of is actually benevolent, just as any other racial group

2019-09-09 07:18:56 UTC

Because just as much as we pick up on outward appearance in a fight or flight situation, we also pick up on it in a safe environment

2019-09-09 07:20:15 UTC

How does that sound to you now Jokerfaic? Change your mind about how racist I appear to you? Because I hope it does, and I hope you remember that next time we talk.

2019-09-09 07:20:30 UTC

That is true, but you have the issue of minority groups also becoming hegemonic in some ways, directing popular culture. Take pop and rap culture in America, for example. Sometimes it doesn't always work out that way, especially if you don't take steps to fill the vacuum beforehand.

2019-09-09 07:20:43 UTC

then where does the "lying or weak" denomination come in?

2019-09-09 07:20:46 UTC

Yeah it doesn't always work, that's fine

2019-09-09 07:20:55 UTC

Ah ok

2019-09-09 07:20:55 UTC

Right

2019-09-09 07:21:01 UTC

I was honest earlier, and now I'm lying, well fuck you

2019-09-09 07:21:11 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613769782461857813/620519052946964480/15865a1299460f0a5fce0e488a1f9d59.png

2019-09-09 07:21:20 UTC

Does not prove your point

2019-09-09 07:21:35 UTC

I'm asking you a direct question you whinging bitch

2019-09-09 07:21:48 UTC

You did several times, and I said you're wrong several times

2019-09-09 07:22:14 UTC

You always do this, pick selective quotes that prove nothing, because you either take them out of context, or you invent a new context

2019-09-09 07:22:25 UTC

You LOVE doing this

2019-09-09 07:22:29 UTC

It's your thing

2019-09-09 07:22:41 UTC

"People who say they don't see race are **lying or weak**"
I'm asking where that fits in your plan of comingling and understanding

2019-09-09 07:22:55 UTC

Ok

2019-09-09 07:22:59 UTC

Ok, very simple

2019-09-09 07:23:09 UTC

yes, my questions often are

2019-09-09 07:24:18 UTC

I'll wait

2019-09-09 07:24:45 UTC

I observe they are of different skin tones and racial backgrounds, yes, point?

2019-09-09 07:24:55 UTC

Is one of them white, and one is black? Is that correct?

2019-09-09 07:25:03 UTC

correct

2019-09-09 07:25:08 UTC

So you see race, ok

2019-09-09 07:25:19 UTC

How does that prove that you're a racist?

2019-09-09 07:25:33 UTC

Are you a racist because you see those differences?

2019-09-09 07:25:35 UTC

so the difficulty arises from the individual's meaning behind the assertion os *seeing* race,

2019-09-09 07:25:44 UTC

Tell me if this makes you racist

2019-09-09 07:25:47 UTC

The fact that you're noticing this

2019-09-09 07:26:03 UTC

which frankly is the onus of the individudal making the assertion

2019-09-09 07:26:12 UTC

You know there's a study showing all races experience adrenaline rush/fight or flight responses when they see a member of another race? I believe this was aired on Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman, if my memory serves me just.

2019-09-09 07:26:13 UTC

You clearly see race

2019-09-09 07:26:19 UTC

Are you a racist because you see race?

2019-09-09 07:26:21 UTC

You know what I see in that photo?

2019-09-09 07:26:39 UTC

The black man is always trying to differentiate himself from the white man by wearing a funky ass suit.

2019-09-09 07:26:47 UTC

That's just a common behavior I see among blacks, which is a byproduct of their non-conformity.

2019-09-09 07:26:54 UTC

🀦

2019-09-09 07:26:57 UTC

Am I racist?

2019-09-09 07:27:03 UTC

I asked Joker, not you

2019-09-09 07:27:15 UTC

C'mon, I'm trying to throw some humor into it.

2019-09-09 07:27:26 UTC

Ok sry <:sargonfingerguns:568463117856669696>

2019-09-09 07:27:46 UTC

I'm angry that this Joker guy is trying to paint me as a racist because he can't distinguish between seeing race and being a racist

2019-09-09 07:27:55 UTC

So I'm trying to prove to him that noticing race is not racist

2019-09-09 07:28:39 UTC

It's a subtle truth I laid out that examples their non-conformity.

2019-09-09 07:28:57 UTC

the difficulty in communication seems to be what an individual is meaning to convey when they say they do or don't *see* something. I communicate it in a willingness to convey I don't put contextual wieght on it, you communicate it to convey whether or not its physically observed.

2019-09-09 07:28:57 UTC

Anyway, you two have fun.

2019-09-09 07:29:46 UTC

Nice dodging the question Joker

2019-09-09 07:29:47 UTC

neither definition is indididually correct or incorrect, we seem to have simply gone over the other's head

2019-09-09 07:29:57 UTC

It's always great when you can accuse others of something dishonestly

2019-09-09 07:30:03 UTC

But when that same argument gets turned on you

2019-09-09 07:30:05 UTC

You just avoid it

2019-09-09 07:30:36 UTC

I was identifying where I was wrong in my judgement

2019-09-09 07:30:42 UTC

You were wrong about me being a racist

2019-09-09 07:30:46 UTC

yes

2019-09-09 07:30:50 UTC

Thank you

2019-09-09 07:32:02 UTC

still, your repetitive reference to things being safe or unsafe or weak didn't help the issue

2019-09-09 07:33:50 UTC

I don't know how to solve that issue when it concerns the matter of race and racism, because it's so emotionally and culturally and politically loaded in this day

2019-09-09 07:34:01 UTC

I can't present nuanced arguments anymore without being accused of racism by someone

2019-09-09 07:34:12 UTC

This didn't use to be the case

2019-09-09 07:35:29 UTC

well its just needlessly combative laguage. when concerning the establishment of understanding, 'productive' and 'unproductive' are much clearer

2019-09-09 07:36:45 UTC

though in the very same respect, the term "progressive" is just as unfortunately innappropriate a term for this

2019-09-09 07:37:42 UTC

I guess maybe

2019-09-09 07:38:11 UTC

I could be considered progressive in a few ways, too, despite overall being more conservative

2019-09-09 07:39:34 UTC

its like how I can't say America needs "a party of the people" or a "people's party" if I wish to refer to a party that can accurately represent the democratic mandate of the citizenry

2019-09-09 07:41:00 UTC

Well about that, I actually think democracy is overrated, when just looking at the justice system for example which is clearly undemocratic, and we're hardly ever questioning it except in specific cases

2019-09-09 07:41:51 UTC

gotta ask, since again, mixed pol is hard to tell who's from where, referring to UK or US justice system?

2019-09-09 07:43:56 UTC

Well I was talking more about in general in western countries

2019-09-09 07:44:55 UTC

I understand legislation is voted for, not just decided by an authority, but the voting process is not exactly a good representation of a truly democratic system. And who knows maybe that's a good thing, I don't know.

2019-09-09 07:45:16 UTC

Efficiency and "common sense" often trumps democracy, even in a democratic setting

2019-09-09 07:46:28 UTC

And then there's also the issue that the democratic systems that are in place are not actually truly democratic. Which again, may be a good thing.

2019-09-09 07:47:09 UTC

I believe democracy should be resorted to only when absolutely neccessary. I believe it's being overused, and thus abused.

2019-09-09 07:48:00 UTC

Because after all, democracy is, in its very essence, mob rule. It must be tempered, and we do that by often simply doing.... nothing at all. No authority whatsoever. Just let things go.

2019-09-09 07:48:55 UTC

well such is why the US isn't a direct democracy

2019-09-09 07:49:18 UTC

Yes, and I think that's good

2019-09-09 08:55:01 UTC

Federalism has been slowly eroded over time, in the U.S., the most prominent a Wilsonian-progressive, 17th Amendment. I've previously written in great length as to why popularly elected Senators was a negative, but to name just a few:
1) The House was meant to remain the only unstable chamber within the Congress, subject to the public tenacity district by district and localizing politics, leaving the Senate stable and apolitical, thereby preserving the sovereignty of various constitutional mechanics the Senate provides for. Take the Judiciary, the politicization of the Kavanaugh appointment, while examining all previous appointments over the past century, since the Amendment was ratified. They're mostly progressive, populist, and willing to stand for the Federal government's violation of property rights and expansion, among other key issues, such as allowing for unions to conduct racketeering, blackmail, and economic terrorism, for example;
2) The 17th Amendment made it easy for wealthy coastal areas, of greatest economic scale, to influence and dictate Senate elections to the rest of the rest of the country. Without a 17th Amendment, any influence must be made at the local, district-level House as that's the constituency they're held to account, while they were the ones to appoint Senators. It's also more difficult for, what has become a Corporate State, to dictate the elections of 435, 2-year term House seats, than it is to dictate the 100, 6-year term Senate seats. Local interests in New York or Florida shouldn't dictate the elections of 25 fly-over States. This is why minimum wage and other labor laws, for example, have been accepted by a Senate, at the cost of economic development for the inner-country majority, while all economic interests are saturated around economies of scale (economic fascism), burdening the rest of the country with market-entry barriers and various other forms of regulation that have regulated out various free-market processes within many

2019-09-09 08:55:02 UTC

industries, leaving behind the façade, a veneer of Capitalism, as with any planned economy, leading to increased consumer and operational costs at a loss of efficiency. Certainly, alphabet-soup (the innumerable amount of federal agencies planning the economy) never would've came around, and FDR's (what do you know, another Democrat) fascist shenanigans, praised by Mussolini himself as "boldly interventionist in the field of economics," would've never come unfolded;
3) We'll talk about this some more in the future, but for now I've got to get myself a shower and lead a productive day.

2019-09-09 09:03:14 UTC

At the end of the day, Federalism embraces the core of Democratic values, than does the direct-Democratic system, a zero-sum game of national politick. Self-governance, the core of the American way, tells us the 17th Amendment must go.

2019-09-09 09:06:18 UTC

That's for you two, @ETBrooD & @Jokerfaic, along with any passerby. Scroll up for my comments on your conversation about "Democracy."

2019-09-09 09:16:51 UTC

Good

2019-09-09 09:19:11 UTC

And, this is what people should begin to recognize as the petri dish of America's corporate globalism, the firms with monopolies state-side, due to indirect planning of the economy through regulation, within our very government, who've grown to reach outside our borders and sacrifice our interests, feeding the monstrous regimes (PRC, for example) that inevitably rival us, with impunity, @ETBrooD. There are arguments to be made both for and against this system, as focusing on the interests of economies of scale has a compounding and perpetual effect of growth, but the long-term consequences just may outweigh it.

2019-09-09 09:23:33 UTC

See this is the issue we need to address

2019-09-09 09:23:48 UTC

The Republic won't be able to save the people until it has rid itself of the federation.

2019-09-09 09:24:37 UTC

The US should've never been a federation, it was a mistake

2019-09-09 09:25:51 UTC

So, you'd consider yourself an anti-federalist, despite knowing what the consequences would've been long ago? I'm not a nationalist in the sense that self-governance is out the window.

2019-09-09 09:26:56 UTC

We'd be a full-blown fascist State under an entirely anti-federalist system.

2019-09-09 09:27:04 UTC

I consider all first aggression to be immoral, and federations can only impose themselves with aggression

2019-09-09 09:27:26 UTC

A lesser evil is not a good, it doesn't work that way

2019-09-09 09:27:34 UTC

Just like democracy is only the lesser of a number of evils

2019-09-09 09:28:05 UTC

We need to progress further towards true freedom, America stands for it but doesn't act it

2019-09-09 09:28:38 UTC

If not even America is willing to push for more freedom, what hope does humankind have as a whole?

2019-09-09 09:30:50 UTC

The closest you will come to true freedom is a federalist, decentralized government, of which the liberty lovers are enabled to self-govern, while eliminating the mechanisms by which feed the power of the artful few to impose upon the many. You will find a taste of true freedom in Washington's Farewell Address of 1796.

2019-09-09 09:32:43 UTC

I don't think any federation can defend freedom

2019-09-09 09:32:47 UTC

American federalism is also by design, just as any other, but it retains the greatest freedom for one to govern oneself. We've strayed from federalism, and that is the problem, the interests of few districts infringing upon those of hundreds.

2019-09-09 09:33:30 UTC

You can't be "allowed" to self-govern, you either do or you don't. If you need to be allowed, then you're not self-governed.

2019-09-09 09:34:11 UTC

It's not a matter of being allowed, it's a matter of retaining a system that cannot violate your ability to self-govern, one we do not have as we continue to stray away from federalism.

2019-09-09 09:34:26 UTC

I'm not sure why you're talking about this as a "few vs many" situation

2019-09-09 09:34:37 UTC

The many, the few, it doesn't matter

2019-09-09 09:34:58 UTC

Did you not read what I wrote, regarding the 17th Amendment?

2019-09-09 09:35:12 UTC

Look

2019-09-09 09:35:21 UTC

Whether few infringe on many, or many infringe on few, it's the same thing

2019-09-09 09:35:28 UTC

Morally speaking

2019-09-09 09:36:09 UTC

The many cannot infringe upon the few under American federalism, nor can the few upon the many; that's the point.

2019-09-09 09:36:09 UTC

Unless you're a utilitarian, in which case I'd love to have a debate about the meaning of numbers

2019-09-09 09:36:48 UTC

I'm not a fan of utilitarianism, and if I was, I'd be an anti-federalist and side with Wilsonian-populism.

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