Cause they're against freedom of expression?

No

"no"

Expression for me, not for thee

Are you pro Child Porn

No

Why are you against Freedom of Expression?

Pornography requires consent. Children can't consent.

Are you pro CP that is not made using any children, but is generated using, say, AI?

If it's not sold or otherwise distributed but kept privately, I don't see a problem with it

That’s a oof

Why are you against the Free Market?

We can't test every single file for authenticity, children require added layers of protection.

That's why we make blanket rules for them, and for others, to protect them.

We can easily test whether it is made using deepfake or not

No we can't, the amount of fakes flooding the market would be insurmountable.

But hold on

Let’s say we can

Moreover, the consumption of CP itself doesn't violate your standards @ETBrooD

Just as a hypothetical

The private consumption of CP can be tolerated, since I don't want to make pedo lives miserable, I just want to protect children.

Distill the art from the method, then it seems you are fine with it

Yes, as I expected

The problems arise when we lose the ability to protect children

It's not about punishing pedos, it's about protecting children

This has priority

It is about the degeneracy of the art form itself

Degeneracy in a vacuum is not harmful

Well while I have no personal problems with tormenting pedophiles, pragmatically we should still lock them up. Their a lose end that can attack children and have the motivation to do so

Protecting children is a bigger issue of course, but private matters also effects the society at large

Through civic order

No they don't affect society at large, that's a lie

Of course it does

I wouldn’t say a lie

It does not

The evidence is all around you

Disagreement in opinion rather

Prove to me that my private internet porn consumption affects society at large

What was considered the norm 15 years ago (disgust of faggots) will now be considered homophobia

Since it has been legalized and promoted by society

What

You're conflating two arguments

Porn has a lot of psychological effects on people and its mass sale has even more negative effects

I disagree

Prove me wrong

I can gather studies later on this topic

Tell me what the key argument of those studies is

Oh the effects of pornography on the psyche

Pornography has no negative effect on the psyche

But on the second point of mass consumption of porn, it has led to the proliferation of degeneracy in the masses

Prove the link between that

And that is more problematic

How is my porn consumption linked to displays of BDSM on the streets?

I'd say one major impact it has is the objectification of women

Well I have to disagree but I’ll have to look for studies to find out. But here is a heads up; don’t bother with abstracts, scientists will say shit in abstracts then when you look at the data it contradicts them

@snake very correct

I've learned a lot about statistical fallacies, I can spot them from a mile away

Because it’s like this, my study says pedophilia is good (THIS IS JUST a hypothetical to show case my point) I won’t put that shit in my abstract because it’s very taboo

Correct, there is research proving positive effects of child sex with adults

Lmao ok stop baiting

I'm not baiting

This is real

@snake That's a phenomena known as Regime Flavor (coined by Alt Hype)

Yep the authoritarian view of knowledge etc

You can bend almost any research in favor of any argument if you only try hard enough

Especially in less researched fields

Oh that, ok I see your point

Academia is filled with bogus science

Basically, the scientists will try to go into analysis paralysis regarding dangerous topics like Race and IQ, just to appease the dominant view

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/analysisparalysis.asp

Well I don’t want to get into a statistical debate about the effects of porn

I’ll be honest I’m not good with statistics sadly

But when you look into the data, it will point to a different direction

This is also a fault of the peer review system

Just as a general guideline: never trust new discoveries

What’s wrong with it?

@snake Returning to the previous point, do read the book I linked

https://renitenciabrasil.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Libido_Dominandi_-_Sexual_Liberation__Political_Control_-_E._Michael_Jones_2000.pdf

Sexual liberation is a form of political control

I know science is very wonky on new discoveries

The trend is that the newer the research, the more likely it is to be faulty, or for the conclusion to be incorrect

DM me it @Monstrous Moonshine

This is why leftists push for transgenderism so vehemently

See, this is what I find interesting

I side with you on the more extremist progressive viewpoints, but then you also have opinions on the harmfulness of looking at online porn

And I almost never agree with the latter

Because you're going too far in the other direction

You’re just saying you’re a centrist

Lol

No

That’s fine

A centrist would say that transgenderism should be fine

I'm severely opposed to the idea of transgenderism as it exists in modern day

important *as it exists*

There's also a simple reason as to why centrists are typically right more often

It's statistics

Depends on the time frame

When choosing between two opposite extremes, they're both likely incorrect

A centrist of 1950 would be different from a centrist of 2019

True

My point is

Ford is the complete opposite of a progressive

Yeah but that’s why I like him

(or at least he seems to be)

I bet you that Ford in the 1500's would be considered degenerate by a ton of people

@ETBrooD He might even be considered--dare I say--a SODOMITE?

Not degenerate, just a heretical pagan

Not even so unlikely tbh

That's a fallacy of moral relativism

I'm not relativizing anything

I'm saying that's what people would think

The point being that you may not be aware of where you actually stand on the spectrum

You are gauging on the assumption that values are relative to the time frame they are made in, I'm gauging on perennial values which stay constant throughout time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_School

I'll let you in on a little secret on "values consistent through time"

They weren't even consistent within their own countries

@ETBrooD They're not always possible?

Not really, they have been consistent for the vast majority of people throughout history

Nope

<:thunk:462282216467333140>

People couldn't even read or write back in the day

They weren't even considered worthy enough to be listened to

It is irrespective of literacy

Then my point flew right over your head. Let me explain.

Traditionalism is natural

Yeah but ford, understand that human genetics have changed throughout time

Most people were illiterate, so they couldn't pass down their views and values through time

That's false

The alt hype did the video about the European revolution

Dude

Which if true would clearly show that things change over time

People could express their values, but they couldn't tell future generations what they thought

I'm responding to the claim that illiterate people didn't pass down their beliefs @snake

The church, among other institutions, had an iron grip on that

I have a striking example to completely refute that

Oh, well illiterate people had children

They would obviously pass it on to them

Those children didn't have the same views

Unlike Ford I don't believe in the heritability of morality

Well there is the heritability of political views and temperament

Political views aren't heritable

I don’t know if that counts as morality

There is an oral tradition of ancient Aryans of India, who have preserved the Vedas, a large corpus of ancient Sanskrit hymns, for over 5000 years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_chant

Ok it works like this, you know the big five personality test? Those greatly influence your political values, and morality and are also heritable @ETBrooD

And they have been doing so since before they were acquainted with writing on a large scale

So it is idiotic to even suggest that illiterate people don't pass down their values

That’s why there is a world of difference between conservatives and liberals

But that doesn’t mean it’s a concrete thing, think of it as a outline to a book, environment deals the rest @ETBrooD

Same with Germanic bards and Celtic druids

Historical context feels in the details

I think you've still misunderstood my argument

? Maybe I did, chat has gotten a little chaotic

My argument is that we don't know which values illiterate people had, since they didn't express their values through time. They can learn chants all they want, that doesn't change the fact that they can't create a big library of personal values that would show their true diversity of thought.

So for us it is impossible to assume that they either did or didn't have diverse values.

Still wrong

Do you know how Grimms tales were made?

And what do they reflect?

No

I can vaguely remember a few of the stories

They were a collection of folklore of rural Germany, collected by the Grimm brothers

What they found was that these stories reflected many similar elements and often times contained missing links with Germanic Iron Age historical events

Which had been recorded elsewhere

"Many similar elements" does not equate to "values consistent through time"

It does tell us which values remained and which didn't, and couple it with historical events, you have the complete picture

No it doesn't tell us that, because it's only a collection, and it's not a word-for-word representation of any values

The main point is, there has always been a transmission of beliefs from the older generation to the younger, even when they were illiterate

It's also likely that the Grimm brothers put their own spin on the stories

So to sum it up, it proves nothing about consistent values

It proves that people propagated their beliefs regardless of literacy

Which is really a self evident point anyway

Propapagated their beliefs... through time?

So three or four generations later those beliefs would be consistent?

Across all or most people?

Mutations of beliefs occurred mainly through wars and other upheavals like famine

That's a non-answer

And even such events were recorded and passed down as folklore

*getting increasingly bored*

Not to mention, mutations didn't cause rapid changes. So for instance, it would be highly rare for a stable society to go from rejecting homosexuality to accepting it, unlike in today's post modern age

Aight, no answer then

I wanted to go to bed anyway, gn8

That's the answer

Nope it's not

Read again

Ok read it again, it's still a non-answer

> So three or four generations later those beliefs would be consistent?
> Across all or most people?

I provided the answer that it mutated very slowly, and only changed substantially if there were wars or other major events

Still a non-answer

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/topless-women-win-big-colorado-city-drops-ban-n1056701

@EmoGazebo And then one day, for no reason at all...

Don't worry, Hitler made sure no new Nazi uprising could happen in the coming decades

<:sarGOY:462286263622303754>

Just in case you don't understand the meaning of that

Hitler is at fault that Nazis are now powerless

<:sarGOY:462286263622303754>

What, you resort to trolling now? I must say I'm disappointed, you never gave up before

I thought you will understand the obvious reference by the second time

I do understand it, but it's so simplistic and boring that I don't care

It has everything to do with Hitler's faults and nothing to do with (((propaganda))) against Nazi Germany?

Oh it's both

But Hitler is the one who did the irreperable damage to his own cause

In case you can't follow the logic

The strong wins the war. But then the victims outnumber the strong. And thus the strong loses.

https://americanmind.org/post/and-you-call-yourself-a-christian/

https://news.yahoo.com/eastern-german-city-declares-nazi-emergency-173735632.html

> Frankfurt am Main (AFP) - The eastern German city of Dresden has declared a "Nazi emergency" as officials warned of a rise in far-right support and violence.
>
> The city is the birthplace of the Islamophobic Pegida movement, which holds weekly rallies here, while the anti-immigration Alternative fuer Deutschland (AfD) party won 28 percent in September regional elections.
>
> Dresden's city council on Wednesday backed a resolution against far-right extremism with the title "Nazinotstand?", or "Nazi emergency?".

@EmoGazebo I see no issue here

I mean the lifting of restrictions is generally a positive imo. But at the same time it goes against what was the shared moral values of america. Im not really sure how i feel about it.

Are you for legalizing hard drugs?

Just walk around filming.

They can't stop you from filming in a public place right?

So, you will now have hours of free film of women walking around without tops on.

which is entirely their choice.

The leftist counter to that is to remove any semblance of decency from society, so that being nude is no longer a taboo

If they don't want to be filmed, all they need to do is put a shirt on.

Then it won't matter if you film them or not

Which is not a society I would want to be a part of

I am for legalizing hard drugs

But being a public nuisance by being high and causing other problem problems should have consequences

Legalizing hard drugs only hooks up more people to addiction and degenerates society

>hooks up more people to addiction
Ah yes your being forced to do something because its legal

I must have forgot

You are being incentivized not to by the law

And on a statistical scale, it has a large effect

Banning things doesn't stop people from doing them and creates criminal groups that will encourage the buying and using of said banned things. With no oversight.

Not true

It depends on a lot of factors

Such as demographics, type of law, implementation of the law etc.

Im pretty sure the real world examples of prohibition and the war on drugs say otherwise

You do realize the difference between legalization of weed vs cocaine, right?

And why any apparent "failure" of war on drugs can't be translated into an argument for legalizing crystal meth?

The war on drugs is an abject failure and clearly it being illegal doesnt stop people from manufacturing and selling it or people doing it

Murder being illegal doesn't stop people from murdering either

That's a failure of the state, civic order and demographics

And those should be fixed than legalizing every degeneracy under the sun in the pursuit of abstract principles of libertarianism

https://youtu.be/n4kDW35wCSM

its not all about libertarian values

i think legalizing certain highly addictive drugs AND providing centres like what happened in that one country really would help in some other countries

westcoast of europe for sure

all these tiny theocracies

Make drugs legal and the clinics for them private; I don't want the NHS caring for crack-addicts at the expense of the British-taxpayer every time they overdose.

Of course though, in places such as the USA where healthcare is purely private (aside from the abortion that is Obamacare), that wouldn't be an issue.

I'd also want drug-use and overdoses to be treated in the same vein as alcohol; no driving under the influence, fines for being drunk/high and causing trouble in public, etc.

What you incentives, grows. What if we incentivised self-help rather than 'free-escapism'...

Oh wait, then the gov. wouldn't be able to justify diverting funds for rehabilitation centres that sustain users to year on out growing trends...

Seems like the more money we allow faceless institutions swallowing up, the worse we are on an individual level... Who'd have 'thunk'! <:pepelaugh:544857300179877898>

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201907111076211343-polish-court-refuses-to-expel-russian-dad-who-took-his-daughters-from-swedish-muslim-family/

I have a hard time being against this