#chat (Discord ID: 452955220473806859) in The Right Cafe, page 152

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2018-09-09 14:52:28 UTC

Well, I don't know about that but Alternativ för Sverige is definetly better.

2018-09-09 14:52:31 UTC

ironically he is a proto SJW, nothing more really, and still harps on about being anti collectivist

2018-09-09 14:53:20 UTC

its just sad now and simply retarded on his part, at leat his consistent i guess.

yeah I saw some chanell point them out to me and I realized how bad it is in sweden that sweden democrats are being seen as something nationalistic

2018-09-09 14:55:21 UTC


2018-09-09 14:56:08 UTC

Either way this may be the start of the swing back, the issue is do they have the time to swing back, or will they be defeated by their own democratic process and anti soverinty and exclusivity

2018-09-09 15:45:23 UTC

So I saw this from Sargon today, irinically im still subbed to his FB, when I said sargon is a proto SJW I meant it.

"Race is a social construct. Same with gender, sexuality and anything else that can be considered as part of a social interaction between people."

this was in response to someone, he then goes to say-> "n fact, they are ALL influenced by biology. The point of a social construct is for human society to deal with a facet of reality which we encounter in everyday life. It's necessary to tie it to biology." as his defense on his opinion os the social construct of race etc. Albeit these being facts of existence rather than esoteric notions that social constructs tend to define.

and then: "Yes, it's called learning. I was wrong in 2017, I am correct now." In refrence to a 2017 video he made where the evidence demonstrated that race is something that matters whether or not the society is aware of it or not, and to an extent therefore ethnicity falls under the same issue. Social constructs are something that makes into tradition, that is invented with certain reasons. Man and women are not social constructs and their gender expressions are not social constructs either, however the way we treat women and men are social constructs so in this case it would mean legally, financially, etc.

2018-09-09 15:45:26 UTC

So yeah

2018-09-09 15:45:33 UTC

Sargon has literally become a proper leftist

2018-09-09 15:46:15 UTC

my proto SJW theory was correct, I mean its not like he differed from SJW's on his philosophical foundations much or at all, and was a radical individualist. Meaning this was literally bound to happen

2018-09-09 15:46:52 UTC

2015 sargon was best, at least then there was his original idea of Marxist Sargonism (which wasnt unfounded and was actually quite well constructed as far as a starting point for some economic model and later ideology)

2018-09-09 15:49:40 UTC

Sargon is one of the guys who thinks things will magically turn out fine if only we rolled society back 15 years

2018-09-09 15:50:22 UTC

Anything more reactionary is "muh horseshoe theory" "you're as bad as the left"

2018-09-09 15:53:05 UTC

these rational skeptic types and even most alt right are leftists that just took longer to integrate into the mainstream marxist doctrine

2018-09-09 16:09:31 UTC

“everyone to the left of me is a marxist”

2018-09-09 16:10:16 UTC

@Deleted User you mean Alt Righters like Richard Spencer?

2018-09-09 16:10:59 UTC

tbh, the alt right bores me

2018-09-09 16:11:49 UTC


2018-09-09 16:11:55 UTC

we don't talk about richard spencer

2018-09-09 16:13:34 UTC

Richard Spencer is gay, change my mind

2018-09-09 16:13:51 UTC

“everyone i don’t like is a homosexual”

2018-09-09 16:15:18 UTC

Nope, I don't call Obama gay

2018-09-09 16:15:44 UTC

seems like everyone else does

2018-09-09 16:15:50 UTC

But the likelihood you are is very high

2018-09-09 16:15:57 UTC


2018-09-09 16:18:31 UTC


2018-09-09 16:18:36 UTC

(((Alt Right)))

2018-09-09 16:19:18 UTC


2018-09-09 16:19:22 UTC


2018-09-09 16:19:57 UTC

Meh. Spencer at this point is essentially a shill for Dugin and the Eurasianists.

2018-09-09 16:20:11 UTC

The alt right is not remotely right wing

2018-09-09 16:20:32 UTC

"alternative" right is so alternative it doesn't even fit in with the right

2018-09-09 16:23:08 UTC

sorry how is it not right wing

2018-09-09 16:23:15 UTC

I mean really only certain individuals (i.e. Spencer) and the Mainstream media use that term.

2018-09-09 16:24:13 UTC

I mean all of the Alt Right

2018-09-09 16:24:37 UTC

well, specific to what I was talking about, most of the Alt Right

2018-09-09 16:25:36 UTC

So how are they exactly Leftist? In your opinion.

2018-09-09 16:25:44 UTC

What do they advocate for?

2018-09-09 16:27:26 UTC

usually something along the lines of a white ethnostate

2018-09-09 16:27:53 UTC

What sort of policies specifically though

2018-09-09 16:27:56 UTC

Free speech?

2018-09-09 16:28:09 UTC


2018-09-09 16:28:34 UTC

"The West"?

2018-09-09 16:28:55 UTC

i mean it’s not like there’s a defined ‘alt-right manifesto’ or anything so it really varies from person to person

2018-09-09 16:28:59 UTC

It does

2018-09-09 16:29:21 UTC

and how is ‘the west’ a policy lmao

2018-09-09 16:29:26 UTC

Far Right <:unequal:473954748517842954> Alt Right

2018-09-09 16:29:39 UTC

@ham addition Eurocentrism

2018-09-09 16:29:41 UTC

that's one of the things they advocate for is "saving the West"

2018-09-09 16:29:53 UTC

alright that makes more sense then

2018-09-09 16:30:01 UTC

than just ‘the west’

2018-09-09 16:30:10 UTC

Yes that's one of their main talking points

2018-09-09 16:30:24 UTC

The West is a spook

2018-09-09 16:30:30 UTC

i’m not sure how this ties into being leftist though

2018-09-09 16:30:57 UTC

because the concept of "The West" came into being to pave the way for liberalism a couple centuries ago

2018-09-09 16:31:08 UTC

to say they're leftists is a bit of a misnomer

2018-09-09 16:31:12 UTC

it's more liberal than anything

2018-09-09 16:31:21 UTC

but it's a lot of the same shit

2018-09-09 16:31:59 UTC

yeah nah

2018-09-09 16:33:10 UTC

and liberal =/= leftist smhmh

2018-09-09 16:33:19 UTC

yeah you're right

2018-09-09 16:34:58 UTC

there's a lot of overlap tho

2018-09-09 16:35:10 UTC

Yes, liberal means leftist, you know its meant stop wasting our time with such a bland objection to a word usage you understand. Poor discourse

2018-09-09 16:35:35 UTC

not really in this context though

2018-09-09 16:35:35 UTC

fucking what

2018-09-09 16:36:00 UTC

don't be a nerd

2018-09-09 16:36:44 UTC

You are talking about theoretical politics in a political server. None of us can accuse of being a nerd, do you see that is absurd?

2018-09-09 16:36:58 UTC

yeah but you talk like a nerd my guy

2018-09-09 16:37:21 UTC

you're fucking rhyming

2018-09-09 16:39:01 UTC

every time i check this server i want to die more and more

2018-09-09 16:39:14 UTC

Wow, i allegedly rhymed what a quality discourse. Kys

2018-09-09 16:39:27 UTC

"quality discourse"

2018-09-09 16:39:32 UTC

*a l l e g e d l y*

2018-09-09 16:40:03 UTC

I do declare, sirrah, thine banter is most superfluous

2018-09-09 16:40:42 UTC

i feel like making a list of the shittiest people i’ve met on this server

2018-09-09 16:42:02 UTC

You would easily top my list, adam

2018-09-09 16:42:15 UTC


2018-09-09 16:42:24 UTC

the feeling’s mutual xoxo

2018-09-09 16:42:41 UTC

Politics is an agressive thing, and we have two ways to go about it, agressive verbal sport such that blood may quench the thirst of the masses, alternatively we may fling fecal matter, or just shitpost.

2018-09-09 16:43:25 UTC

that’s three

2018-09-09 16:43:29 UTC

But I would say that liberals are leftists, they can range from proerply let to center left, however the positions of liberalism put it firmly in the camp of the left and this is also why the left has been defined by liberalism for the past, what, 50-100 years?

2018-09-09 16:43:40 UTC

Liberals <:unequal:473954748517842954> Leftist

2018-09-09 16:43:56 UTC

that's the point I was trying to make more or less but I'm ass at explaining shit

2018-09-09 16:44:03 UTC

imo liberals lie firmly in the centre

2018-09-09 16:44:08 UTC


2018-09-09 16:44:15 UTC

from the centre-right to centre-left

2018-09-09 16:44:35 UTC

I don't think you're completely wrong, there's a spectrum

2018-09-09 16:44:39 UTC

shit's nuanced of course

2018-09-09 16:44:39 UTC

Liberals are naturally centre right but it's been infected with pure leftists

2018-09-09 16:44:48 UTC

at this point, if you are referring to classical liberals thats what you say

2018-09-09 16:44:50 UTC

not liberals

2018-09-09 16:45:00 UTC

liberals has a usage meaning in america

2018-09-09 16:45:11 UTC

They can be, but most venture and drift off to the left, radically. Finding a right wing liberal is often almost impossible. There are these outliers but so few and far ebetween. Id put classical liberals in the center.

2018-09-09 16:45:18 UTC

and afaik this is a majority american server

2018-09-09 16:45:20 UTC

firmly in the center.

2018-09-09 16:45:21 UTC

Free market Capitalisitic
Individual rights

2018-09-09 16:45:30 UTC

yeah that shit is gay

2018-09-09 16:45:55 UTC

Liberalism cant really be nationalist, but then agian I need to review on the core tenants of liberalism and the logic of it

2018-09-09 16:45:57 UTC

Nationalism is not gay dickweed

2018-09-09 16:45:59 UTC

the only thing special about these more "right leaning" liberals is that they just take longer to integrate with the marxists

2018-09-09 16:46:02 UTC

libertarian has superseded the usage of classical liberal

2018-09-09 16:46:23 UTC

generally its issue from what I remember being is that its radical individualism was the issue

2018-09-09 16:46:39 UTC

but thats from when I last read up on liberalism and I had little time to do so

2018-09-09 16:46:40 UTC


2018-09-09 16:46:42 UTC

Nationalism isn't completely gay, but it's been muddied up so much by patriotard boomers

2018-09-09 16:46:48 UTC

and other fuckwits

2018-09-09 16:46:57 UTC

if you care about who thinks what

2018-09-09 16:47:01 UTC

that makes you a brainlet contrarian

2018-09-09 16:47:42 UTC

if you didn’t care about who thinks what you wouldn’t be on a political server

2018-09-09 16:47:51 UTC

i care about what is thought

2018-09-09 16:47:54 UTC

not who thinks it

2018-09-09 16:48:04 UTC

its not some fashion

2018-09-09 16:48:52 UTC

Loyalty of communists + nationalism of Fascism

2018-09-09 16:48:57 UTC

Yes plz

2018-09-09 16:48:58 UTC


2018-09-09 16:49:03 UTC

communists arent loyal

2018-09-09 16:49:12 UTC

>loyalty of communists

2018-09-09 16:49:12 UTC

they killed more royals than any other group in history

2018-09-09 16:49:19 UTC

thats the opposite of loyalty? afaik??

2018-09-09 16:49:25 UTC

@Jay1532 "be loyal to the state or die"

2018-09-09 16:49:30 UTC

>nationalism of fascism

2018-09-09 16:49:32 UTC

correlation: not found

2018-09-09 16:49:33 UTC

Communists kill each other to get ahead

2018-09-09 16:49:40 UTC

so loyalty is found under the gun?

2018-09-09 16:49:47 UTC

seems more like intimidation than loyalty

2018-09-09 16:49:49 UTC

do you even know what communism or fascism are?

2018-09-09 16:49:51 UTC

No lmao

2018-09-09 16:49:55 UTC

To jay

2018-09-09 16:50:15 UTC

your answer fits my question

2018-09-09 16:50:17 UTC

But also to Zeigler.

2018-09-09 16:50:18 UTC

lol are you 14? pretty sure those arent difficult concepts

2018-09-09 16:50:30 UTC

Soviets are most dedicated to their state

2018-09-09 16:50:33 UTC


2018-09-09 16:50:49 UTC

thats 1. impossible to prove and 2. history proves its wrong

2018-09-09 16:50:53 UTC
2018-09-09 16:50:57 UTC

no it's very easy to prove

2018-09-09 16:51:08 UTC

The only time Soviets were dedicated to the state was when the personality cult of Stalin was forced down their throat and simultaneously they were being brutally invaded.

2018-09-09 16:51:12 UTC

the Soviets at the top were not even ethnic Russians

2018-09-09 16:51:18 UTC

@Jay1532 Have you ever been to Russia or?

2018-09-09 16:51:33 UTC

I don't think so

2018-09-09 16:51:34 UTC

they dismantled the state they belonged to, killed its former leaders, and then killed millions of its people

2018-09-09 16:51:35 UTC

Yeah, afaik they are only loyal to personality cults

2018-09-09 16:51:39 UTC

russia isnt soviet anymore???

2018-09-09 16:51:41 UTC

Zeiglar is right

2018-09-09 16:51:50 UTC

in terms of the history of communism in russia

2018-09-09 16:51:55 UTC

loyalty was never part of the equation

2018-09-09 16:52:01 UTC

the Soviets were subverters

2018-09-09 16:52:04 UTC

it was more of an oppressive ideology meant to well... genocide millions

2018-09-09 16:52:07 UTC

@Jay1532 Lots of its citizens are still loyal to the soviets even if they are gone

2018-09-09 16:52:17 UTC

ok? thats just rose-tinted glasses

2018-09-09 16:52:18 UTC

because Russians are a race of fucking brainlet peasants

2018-09-09 16:52:19 UTC

@Bogatyr Bogumir I'm not talking about their ideology

2018-09-09 16:52:23 UTC

The pan-socialist quasinationalism that the Soviets tried to force on the republics and the rest of the Warsaw Pact was almost completely rejected.

2018-09-09 16:52:29 UTC

I'm not talking about ideology either

2018-09-09 16:52:39 UTC

the fact is that they weren't Russians, they subverted Russia

2018-09-09 16:52:47 UTC

and they dont look fondly on marxism, they look back fondly on imperialism

2018-09-09 16:52:51 UTC
2018-09-09 16:52:58 UTC

they had a huge geography under their hegemony

2018-09-09 16:53:00 UTC

Because they remember the glory days of rivaling american supremacy

2018-09-09 16:53:03 UTC

I know, Id say people were loyal to the idea of the great soviet Russia, this mythical ethereal spirit of the russian people, that simply took on a new name. The loyalty was there during the war, however afterwards its hard to say they were particularly loyal.

2018-09-09 16:53:04 UTC

you think they like that, or bread lines

2018-09-09 16:53:05 UTC


2018-09-09 16:53:08 UTC

then what the fuck are you talking about "soviet loyalty"???

2018-09-09 16:53:10 UTC

so loyal to bread lines im sure

2018-09-09 16:53:22 UTC

Soviet nostalgia is rooted in nationalism, not actually liking the Soviet Union. If the transition to democracy wasn't completely fucked by Yeltsin there would be next to no nostalgia for the Soviet Union today.

2018-09-09 16:53:42 UTC
2018-09-09 16:53:44 UTC

they went from being an arguably great sized empire

2018-09-09 16:53:45 UTC


2018-09-09 16:53:49 UTC

to a cucked democracy

2018-09-09 16:53:51 UTC

@Deleted User I'm not, I'm saying that lots of people are more so loyal to the communists than people are loyal to fascists

2018-09-09 16:53:55 UTC

its not nostalgia for bread lines

2018-09-09 16:54:00 UTC

Soviet nostalgia is probably due to a lot of different reasons, the first being fondness for communism that a lot of people here have

2018-09-09 16:54:01 UTC

Nobody is loyal to communism in Russia lmao

2018-09-09 16:54:15 UTC

because loyalty to fascism gets people a trial at the hague

2018-09-09 16:54:16 UTC


2018-09-09 16:54:18 UTC

the second being fondness over propaganda from "the good old days"

2018-09-09 16:54:21 UTC

People like that the Soviet Union was stronger than Russia is today.

2018-09-09 16:54:28 UTC

It has nothing to do with ideology.

2018-09-09 16:54:43 UTC

I mean the communists did do a few things right, my grandfather remembers those right things fondly and hates the new capitalist system for ruining them and literally fucking up the population by doing so

2018-09-09 16:54:47 UTC

you really need to understand how subject to intimidation and power people are

2018-09-09 16:54:51 UTC

no one is free from it

2018-09-09 16:54:52 UTC

and the third being a desire for Russia to return to prominence

2018-09-09 16:54:59 UTC

They like that Russia didn't have to cuck to the west

2018-09-09 16:55:00 UTC

its a chief characteristic of humanity

2018-09-09 16:55:02 UTC

I would say that the fascist movement in Russia is a lot stronger than communism.

2018-09-09 16:55:05 UTC

mostly things like availability of work, govorment work programs, public transport being heavily inveted in and certain sectors as well

2018-09-09 16:55:07 UTC

@εïз irma εïз I don't give a shit about their ideology, I said already it's not about ideology

2018-09-09 16:55:26 UTC

-ignores large communist party in Russia-

2018-09-09 16:55:32 UTC

I don't see a sizeable fascist party

2018-09-09 16:55:36 UTC

Enlighten me

2018-09-09 16:55:45 UTC


2018-09-09 16:55:48 UTC

He hated a lot of it as well, but his longing for a time for those specific programs to return is not without raeason, and its because they worked

2018-09-09 16:55:50 UTC

No Russian fascist parties?

2018-09-09 16:55:57 UTC

the pro-Soviet movement in Russia is much larger than the Fascist movement

2018-09-09 16:56:07 UTC

but they aren't ideologically Soviets

2018-09-09 16:56:23 UTC

at least not in the way that the original Soviets were

2018-09-09 16:56:59 UTC

Communism is dead in Russia. Anything with Soviet attached to it is pure nostalgia and nationalism.

2018-09-09 16:57:03 UTC

So if the Soviet movement could be made fascist would they be more successful?

2018-09-09 16:57:18 UTC

(Also interetingly my grandfather was a member of the communist party, in his local city, he was however at one point too idealist and actually wanted to help people. This was an issue so they stormed his and my aprents apartament trying to find something incriminating because he just wasnt good at making people miserable. He also is and was veyr anti jewish, mostly because of his experience during the war and then during communism when he was in the party.)

2018-09-09 16:57:32 UTC

nationalistic soviets?

2018-09-09 16:57:35 UTC

that's probably why they raided him

2018-09-09 16:57:39 UTC

that's NazBol

2018-09-09 16:58:16 UTC

NazBol isn't pure Communist but there's overlap

2018-09-09 16:58:26 UTC

Nazbol should die already

2018-09-09 16:58:27 UTC


2018-09-09 16:58:29 UTC

NazBol is a meme ideology, both on the internet and the real world.

2018-09-09 16:58:34 UTC

it's fucking retarded

2018-09-09 16:58:36 UTC

I mean not having Soviet economic policy, but having the trappings of Soviet nostalgia

2018-09-09 16:58:40 UTC

nazbol gang

2018-09-09 16:58:43 UTC


2018-09-09 16:59:00 UTC

Soviets were bloodthirsty non-Russian usurpers that murdered the best and brightest of the Russian nation

2018-09-09 16:59:00 UTC

No one is a dead serious nazbol

2018-09-09 16:59:03 UTC

That's impossible

2018-09-09 16:59:09 UTC

yes there are dead serious nazbols

2018-09-09 16:59:09 UTC


2018-09-09 16:59:16 UTC

Dugin. 😎

2018-09-09 16:59:18 UTC


2018-09-09 16:59:26 UTC

Dugin is just a pseudointellectual though.

2018-09-09 16:59:40 UTC

but yeah I thought nazbol was just a joke

2018-09-09 16:59:41 UTC

🅱ourth 🅱osition : DDDD

2018-09-09 16:59:50 UTC

Serious nazbol are a joke

2018-09-09 16:59:54 UTC

I'm 42nd position

2018-09-09 17:00:07 UTC

Nazbol is retarded but there are always retards

2018-09-09 17:00:19 UTC

especially in Russia because again, the Soviets killed the best Russians

2018-09-09 17:00:25 UTC


2018-09-09 17:00:30 UTC


2018-09-09 17:00:34 UTC

Soviets were Jews

2018-09-09 17:00:41 UTC


2018-09-09 17:00:42 UTC

National Bolshevism really only exists within Russia.
Any Nazbol outside of Russia are just memers

2018-09-09 17:00:52 UTC


2018-09-09 17:01:14 UTC

NazBol actually was a pretty serious intellectual movement in Germany in the 30's.

2018-09-09 17:01:20 UTC

Still very fringe though.

2018-09-09 17:01:24 UTC

Course many Russian Nazbols also subscribe to Duginism aka Neo Eurasianism.

2018-09-09 17:01:34 UTC


2018-09-09 17:01:48 UTC

And that's because Dugin was one of the founders of the Nazbol movement

2018-09-09 17:02:31 UTC

I'm still curious if a fascist movement that pretended to be soviet wouldn't be more successful in Russia

2018-09-09 17:02:43 UTC

why would fascists pretend to be soviets

2018-09-09 17:02:52 UTC

they are polar opposites

2018-09-09 17:03:24 UTC

To take on the nostalgia of the Soviets

2018-09-09 17:03:30 UTC


2018-09-09 17:03:54 UTC

Like you said, the people aren't actually loyal to soviet policy

2018-09-09 17:03:56 UTC

so what, pretend to be soviets to trick people into hopping on board but surprise, you're not actually soviets but fascists?

2018-09-09 17:04:06 UTC

wear it as a mask?

2018-09-09 17:04:10 UTC

that's retarded

2018-09-09 17:04:48 UTC


2018-09-09 17:04:52 UTC

More like rebrand sovietism

2018-09-09 17:04:57 UTC

again why

2018-09-09 17:05:00 UTC

that's retarded

2018-09-09 17:05:16 UTC

If you want i can link some PDFs to a couple of his works

2018-09-09 17:05:26 UTC

does it explain why

2018-09-09 17:05:31 UTC

I'm just wondering if it wouldn't be more successful in and for Russia

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