But not the idea of nation-states.

What are we arguing about?

Tbh a lot of nations (particularly in Europe) are voluntarily throwing their sovereignty away.

Pff idfk @GermanEastAfrica

hello tankies

Possibility of communist society

Hi

@GermanEastAfrica Marxism basically.

If you want to establish a communist society on another planet.

Fine.

Oh, so a failed system

Yeah

Wrong

communism doesn't work

Of course you're gonna say wrong.

No

@Rhenic RT

@Fuju a certain (((tribe))) is doing that, it's not inherently voluntary. Would you say you voluntarily gave your money away if a fraudster took it from you?

Yea, the citizens of Laos are living in luxury right nkw

What?

Laos is not socialist

Why is that directed at me? I'm both anti-Semitic and anti-communist

Nor is China or Vietnam

I thought we were talking about communism? They directive it as a communist system and country so what is it?

Let me guess

State Capitalism

mine - Today at 4:39 PM
Tbh a lot of nations (particularly in Europe) are voluntarily throwing their sovereignty away.

because you said this

@Fuju he’s talking about the “voluntary throwing away of sovereignty”

Yes I did.

I'm not saying its a good thing.

I'm entirely against it.

and im telling you it's not voluntary in nature

Ah.

because it's inherently fraudulent

Perhaps.

were the people knowingly electing politicians that work for zog, then it would be voluntary.

ZOG? srsly?

Yea

woah

That’s the lingo bud

yes, "srsly", cue "stormfag", "da joos", etc

Welcome to /pol, you’re here forever

/pol/ is filled with civcucks

/nsg/ is where its at

/pol/ gay rt

it's*

/leftypol/ is the best

Fuck off with that gay shit

every /pol/, left or right gay RT

Lol

leftypol is too larpy

i visited there once and it reminded me of when fags on social media used to try and act like regular 4chan users

there's no such thing as leftypol, inherently. It's just communists that wanted their own bit of existence on /pol/. They have their areas to operate everywhere - twitter, facebook, you name it

^ basically

I wonder if gab.io will be infiltrated by the leftys

it's not like communists are being shut down on those platforms

Gab is gay because it’s boomer central.

gab is peak boomerism yes

I like Gab but the format is kind of messy

so

about that whole "transition" stage

from socialism to communism

how in the world is it possible to transition from totalitarianism to a stateless society

Dictatorship of the proletariat

Lol

Totalitarianism is a fake concept

how so?

What

Usually communists believe the state will eventually serve no purpose and wither away.

It’s happened many times before how is it possible to be fake?

ownership of the means of production as well as total legal making power

is totalitarianism

totalitarianism is good

^

@Fuju that seems completely impossible

It is.

Then old empire of China was totalitarian too

I'm on your side with this @Adoring Fan

a strong and competent leader is needed to rule a country

oh no

anime avatars

None

The socialist state seeks to suppress the remnants of exploiting classes so they would never rise again and thus a classless society will be created

a strong leader is needed, but economically, corporatism or prussian socialism is the most sufficient system there is

So what are we debating?

@Advocatus Diaboli the "exploiting" classes were suppressed under the soviet union

and under mao

a classless society wasnt exactly born

Do you realize that for society to be a thing there needs to be hierarchy and structure? That’s how civilization were born

But hey didn't die out for sure

*they

That’s the secret Krabby Patty formula for civilization

ah of course so youre saying stalin just didnt finish his job

and if he killed all the CRAPitalists

he would have just went away quietly

being at peace with the fact that he established his utopia

'utopia'

Getting rid of social classes isn't just killing off all the capitalists

lets kill off everybody tbh

yes

🤦

cant have classes if you dont have people

total vacume decay

destroy the universe at the speed of light

SOYUZ NERUSHIMIY

Why do people need to be killed?

so what do you think stalin needed to do

Like seriously

Not starve his people would've helped

I agree, we shouldn't kill people. Exactly why I don't think blacks or jews are people

He didn't starve his people

aha

ahaha

ahahaha

no

Lol

Holodomor wasnt a thing? Gulags werent a thing?

You're blinded by official propaganda

Holodomor was real

It wasn't Holodomor, it was a famine

Not intended

lmfao

being this delusional

jewish generals literally sanctioned it

Gulags are just penal labor camps

Lol

they took wheat from ukrainian farmers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States

they refused to give any food to them

Nah

And now they took land from Ukraine

@Advocatus Diaboli they’re just labor camps that kill people and starve them to death in the middle of Siberia

Nothing major

Also people starved because everyone was poor

Pls find the location of labor camps yourself

the US penal system does not send people to hard labor for not giving the government a cow

Labor camps in general are literal hell

And the farming class was abolished and told to work in the factories

What

Ever heard of collective farms

kolkhozes

Killing kulaks

Yea we heard plenty

These were peasants' guilds

Not state corporations

emphasis on were

because they were largely killed off

if they didnt give all their works to the state of course

2.5 million died because of 1932-33 famine

>2,5m

ecks dee

In the entire USSR

GOMMUNISM

being this delusional

There were famines in the Soviet Union during 1920, 1924, 1936, 1946, 1972, 1979, 1981, 1984.
1901, 1906, 1921, 1939, 1948, 1951, 1957, 1975, 1995.
1911, 1931, 1963, 1965, 1991.

Pls shut up everyone so I can explain

as many as 15 million people died in the holodomor

go ahead

We are waiting

this isnt voice chat

you arent interrupted here

Russian Empire had been having famines every 2 or 3 years

no but his arguments are gonna end up lost if its just a mess of anti-coms typing, let him speak

Go ahead I'm listening

They began taking food away from peasants in 1916 beacuse of food shortages and speculating

Then the Civil War started

Of because of the war, you know, just a little something called WW1

ah i see so the EMPIRE took food but the Communists didn't

Russian industry was small, so they couldn't produce goods for trade and had to concentrate on making weapons

I see

excellent reasoning

even though prior to the revolution

Russia was the second fastest growing economy in the world

So communists had to adopt these policies as well

"policies"

that's a really thuggish way of saying "lets kill off millions of people because they dont give us their wheat"

what ever happened to workers owned the means of production

What do you mean?

The means of production were owned by the workers

May I continue?

So

Bolsheviks gave the big landlords' property to the peasants who divided it equally

But these small farms weren't effective enough and couldn't supply Russia with all the food it needed

But communists had to deal with it during the NEP

how were they when the people who owned the means of production were not allowed to sell their productions?

Ownership =/= right to sell

How can you sell anything if you're the only possible owner?

The government can still block private owners from selling under capitalism, if it wishes. So that isn't really relevant @Adoring Fan

This too

So

Capitalist America is hella comfy

During the NEP communists allowed private enterprises to rebuild the country ASAP

@Fuju if it wishes, yet it doesn't do that nearly to the extent that the soviet union did.

So what?

NEP was actually a policy of state capitalism like in China today

The workers still owned the mp, and that's what matters regarding your original question.

then what is the merit of owning the means of production? You can do nothing with it

@GucciToiletSalesman not really no.

You can take part in deciding how the money should be spent

You do realise that question would apply to both private and publicly owned means of production, right? @Adoring Fan

@Advocatus Diaboli that is like saying you can take part in elections. Your one vote changes nothing

^

So what?

Are elections useless?

How is that even comparable

elections are useless, yes

democracy is a false god

I forgot you're a fascist

Hope you guys have fun debating while I play some nice video games

Lol

Enjoy

What games and what platform?

it doesn't matter if I'm a fascist or not, that is besides the point

democracy is a wholly failed system

There is a reason all 3 of Aristotle, Plato and Socrates hated it

Bourgeois democracy is indeed a failure

But it's the best existing system so far

Never expected to hear a commie say that

>best system

Ehh

>best existing

best existing

yeah

any democracy is a failure

Democracy is the only way

not just any brand that you disagree with

Democracy gay RT

If you have a ship, you want the best captain to steer it

you dont want a man who, using his charisma, gets elected to be captain

Society isn't a ship

no, it's not, it's much more complicated than a ship

exactly my point

democracy is trash

you want the best leader, not one who got the crowd's favoer

That's why it can't rely on a single man's abilities

*favor

who says a single man rules?

A king has assistants

a fuhrer has his cabinet

a tzar has his regional councils

it's a completely simplistic view of fascism

to think "one man" rules

Having a majority rule can be a problem because the minority is not as well represented

The question is not about if a single man should be allowed to rule (though certainly he shouldn't) but about how do leaders gain their power

Or sometimes the minority is way over-represented. @KGals1

Well, the (((minority))), in that case.

Hello